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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154176: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:38:33 PM

I think the group of people who voted for him was a combination of bigoted people and those who just wanted their jobs back. Of course, even if they aren't bigoted themselves, they still supported that mindset by voting for him.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#154177: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:45:01 PM

Your assumption that this is like the presidential election of 1972 doesn't really hold up. Trump won by by flipping just enough votes in a few states, and he didn't even get most of the overall vote.

That does not suggest a wholesale rejection of the Democratic platform like Nixon vs. Mc Govern did, if anything it suggest that a more overtly moderate candidate would deflate the Democratic vote even more.

There's also the fact that we have more non-white women senators than we've basically had ever, because of the four that got elected this year, and all of whom were fairly left-wing.

So.

edited 11th Nov '16 5:45:42 PM by unnoun

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154178: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:47:38 PM

[up]Most woman senators ever, period, in fact. Which says something positive, I think. (I do hope I'm not confusing this with representatives in general.)

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154179: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:49:04 PM

And Oregon elected the first openly bisexual governor.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#154180: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:56:49 PM

I've been keeping track of the popular vote totals as the remaining absentee ballots and the like slowly trickle in on CNN's election results page.

Hillary's lead in the popular vote has grown from about 100,000 or so the morning after the election to just over half a million at the time of this post. I don't have any expectation of the election somehow being flipped a week after election day of coursenote . However as Hillary's lead grows in the popular vote, rather then getting more and more frustrated at the electoral college systemnote , I actually am becoming more and more hopeful for the long term prospects of the country.

Maybe it's just that for every 0.1% of the popular vote that shifts away from Trump's column, it makes me feel that the country is 0.1% less insane. And that might not be much, but it's not nothing.

Or perhaps losing the popular vote weakens Trump's mandate even further. Making it easier, if only on a psychological level, for those in government to defy his crazier ideas.

[up] That's technically true in the sense that they elected (for the first time) America's first openly bisexual governor (Kate Brown). But it should be noted that Kate Brown was already governor and had been so since February 2015. She was the Oregon Secretary of State (which in Oregon is next in the line of succession for the governorship) when the previous governor resigned.

edited 11th Nov '16 6:03:05 PM by Falrinn

CosmicButtMonkey Probably has undiagnosed mild autism from An eternal abyss of apathy Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Probably has undiagnosed mild autism
#154181: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:57:16 PM

democratic presidential candidates need two things really 1 charisma 2 a clear message they already have they electoral votes needed to win and successful candidates carry down ticket currently they also need to run someone who can run as anti establishment as possible as that is the mood the country is in

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#154182: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:59:24 PM

Trump's win with a lot of voters and Hillary's loss really doesn't seem to have been born out of policy so much as it was from a real hatred and disgust with the establishment.

edited 11th Nov '16 5:59:43 PM by unnoun

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154183: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:01:26 PM

[up] There's also the fact that Hillary is very unpopular and mired in a lot of scandals which legitimate or not hurt her credibility and created an atmosphere of voter apathy.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#154184: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:04:29 PM

Which didn't help the low voter turnout, naturally.

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154185: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:06:02 PM

I agree with the sentiment that Hillary didn't lose because she's a woman, she lost because she's Hillary Clinton, a name that has a lot of bad history behind it, true or not, that stuck to her, whereas other bad accusations attached to Trump simply bounced away from him. And she wanted the presidency so badly, despite not being the best candidate in this social climate, of wanting to rebel from the establishment, that she comes off as not understanding what the common people want and of not properly earning the presidency.

CosmicButtMonkey Probably has undiagnosed mild autism from An eternal abyss of apathy Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Probably has undiagnosed mild autism
#154186: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:08:30 PM

I'd say Hilary being so focused on policy probably hurt her as well, unfortunately Americans need soundbites besides the deplorables comment she really didn't have anything quotable from her campaign.

edited 11th Nov '16 6:09:19 PM by CosmicButtMonkey

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#154187: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:08:47 PM

I mean, a lot of the bad history only happened because she's a woman, I think.

Like, the Republicans have hated her since she was still First Lady. Because she didn't fit the mold of what a First Lady would be. Too uppity.

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#154188: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:09:23 PM

I know this has been discussed before, but I think I missed the bulk of it. There are movements going that want to try to cause a faithless electorate, where the electors would refuse to vote for Trump despite the apparent will of the electoral college.

It would obviously be an unprecedented event and I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of it happening - but if it did, what then?

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154189: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:12:52 PM

I mean, a lot of the bad history only happened because she's a woman, I think. Like, the Republicans have hated her since she was still First Lady. Because she didn't fit the mold of what a First Lady would be. Too uppity.

So they've literally enacted a smear campaign across 2 decades because of misogyny.

I was going to say they didn't get anything out of it, but well it obviously paid off for them.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#154190: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:15:01 PM

[up][up]I mean, it's definitely constitutional. Can't argue it on those lines. Can't contest it.

Whoever the Electoral College members vote for becomes president. Unless it's contested because one person receives less than 270 votes. Then it goes to the Senate.

Most of the Senate are Republicans, but they also really don't like Trump.

Trump supporters might riot or incite violence.

...But there might also be a movement to get rid of the Electoral College altogether because of how much of an upset it would be. Like, nobody's going to get rid of it while it works to their advantage.

edited 11th Nov '16 6:21:25 PM by unnoun

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154191: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:21:34 PM

On one hand, the founding fathers were apparently concerned about an uninformed public choosing the president, so the electoral college is meant to be a sort of a safety measure, and give rural states more say in what the country does. I... uh... Trump doesn't have any political or military experience whatsoever, so maybe it was people like him they were specifically trying to prevent.

On the other hand, they both knew, entering the election, that it would be decided by the electoral college, not the popular vote, and it would most definitely cause rioting, probably another civil war. Can't get more rigged than using the electoral college to change the decision of the people. I think this would only work as a last resort, if people really do think Trump is going to jumpstart the apocalypse and that he isn't the average poorly liked politician.

Oh, and if the electoral college chooses Hillary Clinton instead, I think it can get overriden by the H of R, which would still lead to a Trump presidency anyway. So I'm highly doubtful it would work in the first place, and it's an extremely final resort.

edited 11th Nov '16 6:22:54 PM by dysphere

CosmicButtMonkey Probably has undiagnosed mild autism from An eternal abyss of apathy Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Probably has undiagnosed mild autism
#154192: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:21:44 PM

The irony there being that removing the electoral college would immediately and permanently kill the republicans in terms of winning the presidency because the only replacement would be by popular vote only.

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#154193: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:23:15 PM

Republican candidates have won the popular vote. Bush was re-elected with the popular vote.

But yeah the Republicans wouldn't have any motivation to remove the electoral college. If the college didn't exist then Hilary would have won indisputably.

edited 11th Nov '16 6:24:01 PM by RhymeBeat

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#154194: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:25:47 PM

Edit because the post was changed to explain it.

Also, yeah, Republicans have won the popular vote before. As as infuriated as I would be if republicans kept winning on the popular vote, I'd be able to stomach it a lot better than this Electoral College bullshit.

edited 11th Nov '16 6:41:27 PM by AceofSpades

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154195: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:30:22 PM

It does seem rather dumb that one part of the country, with completely different concerns than another part of the country, can decide the whole election. The average person who lives in Silicon Valley isn't going to share the same concerns as someone living in the Rust Belt, yet the same laws are going to be applied to both. And my vote, in California, counts for less than someone living in Florida, when one vote should equal one vote.

CosmicButtMonkey Probably has undiagnosed mild autism from An eternal abyss of apathy Since: Nov, 2016 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Probably has undiagnosed mild autism
#154196: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:32:16 PM

As always the moral of the story is f**k fptp voting.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#154197: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:33:17 PM

Anyway, as for the Democrats losing down-ballot races, I mean, a lot of those were underfunded by the Democrats in order to get more funding for Hillary's campaign. So. That didn't help, probably, regardless of policies.

dysphere Since: Jan, 2015
#154198: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:34:33 PM

It's supposedly been the first election in a few decades that the person who spent less, won.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#154199: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:51:11 PM

Republican candidates have won the popular vote. Bush was re-elected with the popular vote. But yeah the Republicans wouldn't have any motivation to remove the electoral college. If the college didn't exist then Hilary would have won indisputably.

If Trump's presidency damages their credibility enough with their base to lead to a Democratic takeover of the government in 2020, I could see the Republicans not stand in the way of an electoral college repeal, even if they would never initiate it themselves.

edited 11th Nov '16 6:51:37 PM by Falrinn

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154200: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:55:03 PM

So Trump is toning down on Obamacare of all things. Is there a chance he might not be that awful?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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