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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#154026: Nov 11th 2016 at 9:57:56 AM

Welp, my rights are officially fucked. But go on, keep talking about how we should stop caring about "identity politics" and just leave people like me to the wolves.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#154027: Nov 11th 2016 at 9:58:43 AM

Yep those policies you won't be able to be married because of 'religious freedom', you won't be able to visit restaurants because they don't serve your kind due to 'religious freedom'.

They could even add tags to license saying 'Gay' or 'Muslim' and put you in second class citizen status.

Damnit man someone cast resurrection on Martin Luther King cause we need a true leader to fight everything.

edited 11th Nov '16 10:04:12 AM by Memers

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#154028: Nov 11th 2016 at 9:59:14 AM

The Democrats cannot abandon LGBT and minority rights. They simply cannot.

But they do need outreach to the rural white voters in the Great Lakes area.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#154029: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:01:19 AM

So...

A University of Wisconsin-Stout student from Saudi Arabia died one day after being assaulted on a street in downtown Menomonie, Wis., about 70 miles east of Minneapolis, police and school officials said.

I wish I could see this for anything but what I think we're all thinking it is.

That is sickening.

edited 11th Nov '16 10:01:27 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#154030: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:01:52 AM

@Caspase

That's not what doxxing is and you damn well know it. Getting ID'd as a Neo-Nazi because you used the same handle you used when making Neo-Nazi comments on another website is not getting doxxed or harassed or anything else. It's getting identified.

Doxxing/harassing/et al are crimes. Saying "hey aren't you that Neo-Nazi from this other site" may be against forum policy, but it's not a crime. I'd note, by the way, that you know what else is against forum policy? Accusing another poster of a crime they aren't guilty of. So kindly knock it off.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154031: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:05:34 AM

Is reaching out to rural/working class rights mutually exclusive to identity politics though? Its clear that they vote with economics in mind (when you account for total ignorance that is), so if the Dems offer them something on that front (as Bill Clinton was doing to do but I guess he was The Cassandra) they should be able to keep a progressive stance on social issues at the same time.

I have to wonder, people talk about how they want to move to Canada/leave the US because of Trump....but is there a serious risk that LGB Ts and Muslims in particular will legitimately be able to claim refugee status due to government persecution, and outright displace to Canada and Mexico (why, by international law should be first choices after internal displacement), rather than immigrate?

edited 11th Nov '16 10:09:21 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#154032: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:07:58 AM

It ends up that way if any mention of the existence of bigotry makes them scream about they're being persecuted.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#154033: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:11:44 AM

[up][up] For some people, it's not enough that they get more. They also want those other people to have less.

Disgusted, but not surprised
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#154034: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:11:47 AM

Welp, my rights are officially fucked. But go on, keep talking about how we should stop caring about "identity politics" and just leave people like me to the wolves.
"Identity politics" became a problem when collective-minded fugnutters used them to brand certain people they even remotely resented as pariahs. NOW, however, against potential legislation designed to fuck you over, they're very much called for.

edited 11th Nov '16 10:15:18 AM by nervmeister

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#154035: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:16:15 AM

It's like... WHITE identity politics are fine. That's just, ahem, 'economic anxiety.'

So many people don't want to be seen as racist or homophobic, but they don't want to go to the effort of not being those things.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#154036: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:17:42 AM

I'd say there is the problem with single issue voters on Rust and Rural belts. As much as you could cater their economic needs, they can still focus on those amoral homosexuals, those negroes on welfare, they mexicans took our jobs and muh guns! muh white America! muh heritage! being at "risk".

Almost 12 million Democrats failed to vote this year, the Democrats should focus on getting them back, appealing to the Rust and Rural belt will be risky but very difficult without compromising or without toning down social issues.

The risk is creating exactly another Democrat that fostered the same perception Hillary did, a demagogue that will say whatever the Urbanites in the Blue regions will want to hear and then go to the Rural areas to say whatever they want to hear.

It worked for Trump but I am not sure if it will work for the Democrats.

edited 11th Nov '16 10:19:44 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#154037: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:18:48 AM

Ugh, as far as minorities go right now, the LGB Ts have my sympathy most of all. Latinos and African Americans (if voter suppression wasn't in play, we'll have to wait and see) as a group(s) helped get Trump elected, by voting for him/not voting for Clinton in sufficient. They, along with rural/mid-west whites, are partially to blame with what is coming next. But LGB Ts don't have the numbers or geographic concentration to make a difference.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#154038: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:18:56 AM

There's a difference between calling for an end to identity politics and calling for less emphasis on identity politics in favor of more universal messages.

@Ambar: I've seen doxxing used in that sense, though I suppose that's a catechresis.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#154039: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:19:01 AM

I think we also need to stop calling it the Rust Belt. 'Great Lakes' sounds better.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154040: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:20:42 AM

They're also, as I understand it, the group Pence hates the most. And since many of us are speculating he'll be mostly in charge, that's really not good.

It's going to suck to be LGBT+ in America. Coming out is an even bigger act of bravery and defiance now more than ever.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#154041: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:24:41 AM

Banality of evil is the perfect term for Pence.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#154042: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:25:27 AM

[up][up][up][up]Doxxing also requires stalking somebody, which no one did. Running into a guy who was an asshole one one site on another site and recognizing them is not the same thing.

[up]As I think was said before in the thread, we all know somebody like Pence. Seems decent enough, until you dare to mention the group he doesn't like, and then off we go.

edited 11th Nov '16 10:28:00 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#154043: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:25:45 AM

I'm just wondering where his outright hatred of LGBT+ people even comes from. Because, disliking someone for religious reasons isn't great, but if it's just dislike I don't really care. But Pence appears to actively despise LGBT+ people to the point that it almost looks pathological.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#154044: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:26:32 AM

We can speculate all we want, but it appears to be a deep religious conviction.

Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#154045: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:27:10 AM

To give a more diverse talking point, what do you guys here think would happen to veterans, USA nationals (i.e. those who live in the territories like Guam and Samoa), and Puerto Rico?

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#154046: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:27:19 AM

@Lightysnake

Well racial bias is......"trickier" than outright racism. In fact, I think the former isn't going anywhere as long as humans have egos. And going overboard in reading between the lines and/or policing people into rigid modes of thought in order to subvert it just leads to increased resentment. Racism however is more manageable in that it's less ambiguous or its damage can be more clearly traced back to the problem itself.

edited 11th Nov '16 10:30:19 AM by nervmeister

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#154047: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:28:20 AM

Pretty sure the GOP has proven it doesn't give two shits about veterans. They talk a big game but are content to let them rot if it's convenient for them.

xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#154048: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:28:54 AM

David Auerbach has a pretty extensive analysis on why that kind of politics from the left is failing. It's really long but worth the read. A big part of it is that the left is splintering itself, with infighting because of purism and call out culture.

http://theamericanreader.com/jenesuispasliberal-entering-the-quagmire-of-online-leftism/

edited 11th Nov '16 10:31:25 AM by xanderiskander

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#154049: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:30:02 AM

They also really don't care about the protectorates. Probably because all of them vote Democrat if they get the option.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#154050: Nov 11th 2016 at 10:31:08 AM

Pence is a fundamentalist in the truest sense of the term. All that matters to him is what his narrow-minded interpretation of the Bible tells him.


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