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carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#153901: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:31:08 AM

@protests, there are some reports of things going bad in Portland. Rock attacks against police, shops being vandalized, and a few arrests after some began arming themselves with combustibles and threatening arson.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#153902: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:32:29 AM

Women can vote R. because they are racists and their racism overrides their interests as women.

Women can vote on single issues, like that the Muslim woman who voted Trump, even though the reasoning is quite stupid and shortsighted.

Women can vote for a misogynist because they are either downplaying the misogyny or think they can benefit from it or think there is nothing wrong with a powerful man doing as he likes because women should feel attracted to men like Trump.

Women can vote against Hillary because they don't like Hillary for not being feminine or not thinking that Hillary represents women or the equivalent of #Not All Women when it comes to gender policies.

There were plenty of justifications from women over why they voted Trump, but when you put them in an scale, they aren't good or reasonable justifications.

Inter arma enim silent leges
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#153903: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:34:23 AM

Still craving that simplistic, black & white explanation for the outcome, eh?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#153904: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:36:26 AM

Still ignoring how massive a role outright bigotry and hatred played in his victory huh?

edited 11th Nov '16 5:36:36 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Polisi25 Since: Feb, 2014
#153905: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:38:19 AM

Even managed to lose to Trump when they spend twice his campaign amount. I have some question, do any of you trust your news source from the mainstream media like the CNN & NBC after this debacle?

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#153906: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:40:12 AM

[up][up]No actually. It played a noticeable role or at least contributed to an extent, but even if every racist left in the U.S. voted for Trump, it alone wouldn't have cost Hil the election, even with the lower voter turnout.

edited 11th Nov '16 5:41:40 AM by nervmeister

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#153907: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:40:16 AM

It showed they're not to be trusted, but probably not for the reason you're thinking. They lent WAY too much credence to the Emails/Benghazi crap that helped sink her.

At some point we need to get back to fact-based reporting, by force of law if need be, first amendment be damned.

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#153908: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:40:40 AM

Misogynistic women are so a thing. Like whoa.

Here's another "whoa" for you; calling people racist or misogynistic - surprisingly - does not deter them from the voting booths. Weird, I know. Not even some of the minority voters care enough to be considered "bigots".

Trump won a larger percent of the minority vote than Romney did in 2012. Clearly, there are too many issues to address in this country than to simply throw ad hominems around and pat yourselves on the back.

edited 11th Nov '16 5:46:08 AM by hardcorefakes

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#153909: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:43:59 AM

Politics has never been about facts. When the left relies on identity politics and tribalism and othering, they tend to lose. Because the left's identity doesn't have anything going for it except facts. The right's identity has every dirty trick and emotional lever in the books.

Moving forward, I think this is an excellent opportunity to stand up for our moral values and challenge realistic, actual in your face evil when we see it in our daily lives. But we need to be righteous without being self-righteous. Nobody ever voted for someone because a stranger told them they would be morally deficient if they voted any other way.

As far as I know, nobody in this thread likes it that millions of people voted for Trump, but they did, and that's too many people to shame into the closet and act like what they think can be marginalized.

@Ogodei: I agree that the news media is a large part of the problem, but I don't think they're redeemable at this point. They're profit-driven entities, and what's profitable will always be non-factual, emotionally-driven entertainment, not facts.

The good news is that the grass roots and independent reporting the internet enables is going to make them irrelevant in the long run... provided that we don't get metered to death by our IS Ps for visiting the 'wrong' websites, anyway. Which may happen, if Trump decides Net Neutrality is worth shooting down.

edited 11th Nov '16 5:47:43 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#153910: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:45:24 AM

[up][up][up]Ogodei, if there had been record numbers of people with your authoritarian mindset coming out of the woodwork to support Hillary, I would've voted Trump to keep you and them in check.

edited 11th Nov '16 5:46:54 AM by nervmeister

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#153911: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:46:08 AM

Even if most of the Trump supporters aren't raving bigots licking their lips at the thought of Making America White Again, the ones that aren't still heard Trump's bigoted viewpoints, saw how he emboldened the racists, and yet STILL voted for him anyway. And that's ignoring the fact that Trump didn't really propose policies in the first place.

On Wednesday night's episode of the The Daily Show, Trevor Noah brought on senior political correspondent Hasan Mihnaj to wonder why Trump's bigotry wasn't a dealbreaker for so many Americans. Minhaj argued that even though Trump voters might not all share his extreme views, their vote has ensured that those views are now in the White House: "You may not personally be a racist, sexist xenophobe, but that comes with the package [...] so if you take that deal, what you're telling me is, 'Hey man, I don't hate you. I just don't care about you."

Polisi25 Since: Feb, 2014
#153912: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:47:57 AM

Another question. Do you think that the next presidential election campaign would be cheaper or more expensive given the spending Trump did for his victory, or it is just a one time deal with his persona that only he can do it?

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#153913: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:50:12 AM

[up]It may become even more of a circus, given the example Trump set for earning votes. And money speaks quite loudly.

edited 11th Nov '16 5:50:39 AM by nervmeister

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#153914: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:53:37 AM

Adding to the Pence's long record of stupidity and anti-science: he doesn't think that smoking kills, as in he really denies the link between smoking related diseases, medical complication and cancer.

Now him and a team of like minded people is sitting in the Congress and the White House, let that sink in for a minute.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#153915: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:53:39 AM

News fairness/news reporting things of actual import: Even without the contributions of intellectual titans like nervmeister, the big media companies are too dependent on views generated by manufactured outrage to change now, especially in an age where anyone with a microphone, Audacity and Google Image Search at the very least can get the same sort of following the big American cable channels do.

Campaign funding: Who knows? We don't even know how much Trump stands to profit now that he's committed affinity fraud and won.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#153916: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:59:43 AM

[up][up]"Smoking kills" is basically the ONE thing medical research is absolutely, 100%, no doubt certain. Everything else has caveats, except that.

Good luck.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#153917: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:00:39 AM

[up][up]Maybe cut out the personal attacks against other tropers?

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#153918: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:01:12 AM

I will agree that reducng the outcome to just bigotry isn't entirely right. After all, it was complemented by self-destructive protest votes by people using the ballot as an anger management tool, much like how we got Brexit, as well as the roles of a 20-year smear campaign (as I understand it, an even longer smear campaign was an important part of how we got Brexit) and an FBI director with an axe to grind.

And that said, to downplay the role of bigotry in Trump's win, both in driving his own turnout and driving down Hillary's is to ignore the foundation of Trump's campaign, his speeches, his rallies everything. His primary message has been "I know just who to blame for all of America's woes, vote for me and we'll persecute the hell out of them and build a wall to keep them from ever coming back".

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#153919: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:03:25 AM

"No actually. It played a noticeable role or at least contributed to an extent, but even if every racist left in the U.S. voted for Trump, it alone wouldn't have cost Hil the election, even with the lower voter turnout."

The Trump vote marks them as a racist. That can never be forgotten or forgiven. You cannot separate the vote from the bigotry. You're too forgiving towards these cretins.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#153920: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:05:05 AM

There's still some hope.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#153921: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:07:04 AM

The next presidential campaign is probably not going to have as much money in it because this one shows that there is a hard ceiling on the benefit of injecting more and more cash into a single candidate. After a certain point, it just stops mattering.

That doesn't necessarily mean overall campaign spending will go down, though. The two parties might just spread their financial eggs around more evenly in different races. In hindsight, it's hard not to think that maybe a lot of Clinton's money would have been better spent helping her fellow Democrats play damage control in the other branches.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#153922: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:07:53 AM

[up][up][up]Well, if there's one thing I can safely say about the majority of Trump voters, is that they're not exactly the best at healthily channeling their more bitter emotions due to one gripe or another of some kind (some more understandable than others).

edited 11th Nov '16 6:16:41 AM by nervmeister

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#153923: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:24:26 AM

Jonathan Pie has his own very angry opinion

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#153924: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:25:33 AM

As I've said before, people who voted for him may not be personally or especially racist, however by voting for him they are being complicit with his racism, bigotry, and general buffoonery and that is a pretty big moral slight against them. It doesn't necessarily mean one should demonize them, but it is what it is.

It's not necessarily about patting yourself on the back for being better than them or anything (though yes the left does that a lot), just an acknowledgment of the state of things in the american public.

Karkadin especially is right that facts usually don't matter that much in politics, and this election has been a rude awakening towards that fact.

edited 11th Nov '16 6:26:07 AM by Draghinazzo

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#153925: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:33:27 AM

This elections prove that last minute smear campaigns work and how non-issue bullshit scandals have more weight than actual scandals.

Inter arma enim silent leges

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