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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153601: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:02:51 PM

[up][up][up][up] That's not likely. A failed CIA backed coup in Mexico because they start trying to hedge their bets with Trump in office though resulting in the collapse of Mexico and a protracted insurgency? (remember, Trump is fine with them going around propping up dictators in Latin America like its the height of the cold war)

edited 10th Nov '16 5:04:20 PM by CaptainCapsase

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#153602: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:04:30 PM

@ Mr AHR

Yeah, it's called a window of discourse and I we kind of have something like that with the rule against hatred based on race, religion, gender, sexuality, and so on. That's why most Trump supporters in these threads get banned, because they expressly break those rules and reveal themselves to be hopelessly out of range of what we consider comfortable. I do think that it's unfair to drum them out if they haven't expressly violated any of the above in these threads though. And the tone the posts of some people in these threads who I'd otherwise agree with takes on unnecessary hostility towards dissenting opinions.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#153603: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:05:13 PM

@Alley Oop

Yeah, when it comes to social and economic issues I am solidly on the traditional definition of Liberal but I am South American and being a traditional Liberal can put you squarely on the right wing here. Which isn't much of a surprise since I tend to read British Newspapers like The Economist, BBC and Reuters for news.

I usually have to go as a Centrist leaning "right" on the economy but leaning "left" socially, however I have to deal with not having a political party to represent those views.

Damn I remember some of my first posts here and how I really got into heated arguments in the sexism and racism threads, I changed a few views since then.

China built multiple times and more than one dynasty went bankrupt over trying to maintain them

Funnily enough, it is argued that the original purpose of the wall was not to make getting into China harder but to make leaving harder as a way to prevent the Mongol raiders from leaving with too much loot.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:08:53 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153604: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:05:25 PM

[up][up] There were some people who were willing to talk and not break the rules. One got chased about by someone doxxing him, the other seemingly got bored and left.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:05:40 PM by CaptainCapsase

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#153605: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:07:50 PM

That's not likely. A failed CIA backed coup in Mexico because they start trying to hedge their bets with Trump in office though resulting in the collapse of Mexico and a protracted insurgency? (remember, Trump is fine with them going around propping up dictators in Latin America like its the height of the cold war)

Would they build the wall even then? I don't think it's actually very conducive to american interests regardless of whether mexico or the us builds it.

And the tone the posts of some people in these threads who I'd otherwise agree with takes on unnecessary hostility towards dissenting opinions.

I agree. I don't think it's a productive attitude. If the person is expressing actual racism/homophobia/sexism etc that's one thing but simply having a dissenting opinion shouldn't be cause for a ban or naked hostility.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:08:56 PM by Draghinazzo

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#153606: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:08:53 PM

[up][up][up] That is one of the good thing about the German election system...there is more or less the whole spectrum available, so while it is impossible to find a party you agree with completely, there is usually at least one which does well in the main points....I actually change my vote pretty often, also depending if it is an election for the main government, the EU or a local one.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:09:27 PM by Swanpride

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#153607: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:11:32 PM

In my experience, part of the issue are things that are fueled by bigotry, but not directly related to it. It can be a hard nuance to understand if you agree with the stance.

Read my stories!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153608: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:11:54 PM

[up][up][up] This is a Trump administration we're talking about, so I have literally no expectations of competency or decency.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:12:03 PM by CaptainCapsase

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#153609: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:13:48 PM

Sanders will probably be too old in four years. And the Democrats may blame him (without cause) for dragging Clinton down during the primary.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#153610: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:14:49 PM

I was thinking more in a pragmatic sense, as in is the CIA stupid enough to believe it will actually benefit their interests? All the wall is good for is wasting a shitton of time and money and serving as a symbol of white nationalism and xenophobia.

But yes, it's a Trump presidency so I guess conventional wisdom has already gone out the window.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#153611: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:15:34 PM

I was having my doubts with most of Trump promises and backpedaling but I think he is really going to try to get that wall built out of sheer pride and ego.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#153612: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:15:50 PM

[up][up] If Sanders would be too old, Trump would also be too old, as he is in his 70s.

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#153613: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:15:51 PM

What would make the CIA consider initiating a coup in a given Latin American country? It's not like one could be set up in 24 hours - I'd imagine these things take time. Like, how troublesome in their POV would it have to be (I don't think they'd do it because the president just wore a red tie that day, for an absurd example)?

edited 10th Nov '16 5:16:25 PM by megarockman

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#153614: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:15:57 PM

I think we need fresh blood if we want to have any hope of retaking this country. But finding it is going to be easier said than done.

Frankly, I'm tempted to say that we need another candidate of color. We need another Obama. Someone who can truly inspire passion in people, especially minority groups.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#153615: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:16:51 PM

[up] An Asian-American president, perhaps? The right-wing aren't as hostile to them as other minorities, as was mentioned earlier in this thread.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153616: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:17:34 PM

[up][up][up] Mexico trying to realign towards China out of fear that a Trump led USA is out to get them. Causing a Trump led USA to respond with extreme prejudice.

[up] That's a potential problem if China becomes the Big Enemy since of course all Asians are alike, a Asian-American president at that point will become as likely as a Russian-American president during the cold war.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:18:59 PM by CaptainCapsase

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#153617: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:18:13 PM

I think we need fresh blood if we want to have any hope of retaking this country. But finding it is going to be easier said than done. Frankly, I'm tempted to say that we need another candidate of color. We need another Obama. Someone who can truly inspire passion in people, especially minority groups.

I agree. I think another Obama is more or less exactly what we need right now. Someone sane and competent with great oratory skills and great charisma.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:18:50 PM by Draghinazzo

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#153618: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:18:19 PM

They're not as actively hostile, but they do still treat them with complete contempt most of the time. That contempt would not be an easy hurdle to cross for a serious Asian-American presidential contender.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#153619: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:19:00 PM

[up][up][up] Wouldn't they turn against Canada in that case, too, considering Canada is already pursuing better relations with China?

edited 10th Nov '16 5:19:21 PM by Bat178

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#153620: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:19:06 PM

What I like to do is not argue with people about what they want but on if the way a party proposes will actually yield the promised results. The Brexit campaign promised to control immigration. But Brexit will actually make it more difficult to do exactly that. Trump promised to kick out illegal immigrants and built a wall. Both plans are totally unrealistic.

You know what would have been more realistic? Proper ID's instead of a wall, better controls to break up the black market for illegal work, a combination of worker's rights and minimum wages, as well as some sort of program which allows legal immigration under specific circumstances, so that people have a reason to wait for their turn instead of spending their life in some sort of grey zone...and those are just ideas I have on the top of my mind.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#153621: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:19:59 PM

[up][up] Possibly. The CIA under a Trump administration could be extremely scary, since the man at the top seemingly has no compunctions against them overthrowing democracies, torturing prisoners, assassinating journalists, and other nasty cold-war era atrocities.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:21:21 PM by CaptainCapsase

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#153622: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:20:41 PM

Among the harrassment and hate crimes reported already, some of them included trump supporters shouting racial slurs at asian americans and telling them to go back to their country.

It's not quite the same since it doesn't have the history of border struggles with latinos and the institution of slavery with african-americans, but they don't really get a free pass just because they might hate them slightly less.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#153623: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:20:42 PM

You know, that reminds me of another topic I wanted to find more about. Knowing the aforementioned demographics of this forum it won't be enough, but it's a nice place to start.

How well did Obama do? My usual stomping grounds on the Internet tend to be fairly liberal-leaning, and by and large all I've encountered are memes about how cool he is and ironic "Thanks, Obama!" posts mocking his detractors. Or else, about all the things he wanted to get done but couldn't because the Republicans got in his way at every turn out of sheer spite. But is there some hard data? How many of his campaign promises (like the stuff about closing Guantanamo Bay and withdrawing American troops from the Middle East) did he fulfil? How successful has Obamacare been? How's the American economy progressed during his tenure?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#153624: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:20:57 PM

As fantastically unlikely as it is, I would absolutely love to see someone like Tammy Duckworth take the White House.

I mean, what we're probably actually going to get is another Trump term, or maybe someone worse. But a disabled mixed-race female Asian-American president would embody everything this country should be.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Grounder Main Character Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Main Character
#153625: Nov 10th 2016 at 5:21:01 PM

@Swanpride;

In what way will/did/whatever Brexit not help control immigration?

Genuine question.

edited 10th Nov '16 5:21:48 PM by Grounder


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