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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#148101: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:31:09 PM

How the Internet is Loosening our Grip on the Truth

NY Times. 10 article per month limit. However, the article is too big to quote in full, so I'll quote parts.

Digital technology has blessed us with better ways to capture and disseminate news. There are cameras and audio recorders everywhere, and as soon as something happens, you can find primary proof of it online.

You would think that greater primary documentation would lead to a better cultural agreement about the “truth.” In fact, the opposite has happened.

Consider the difference in the examples of the John F. Kennedy assassination and 9/11. While you’ve probably seen only a single film clip of the scene from Dealey Plaza in 1963 when President Kennedy was shot, hundreds of television and amateur cameras were pointed at the scene on 9/11. Yet neither issue is settled for Americans; in one recent survey, about as many people said the government was concealing the truth about 9/11 as those who said the same about the Kennedy assassination.

Documentary proof seems to have lost its power. If the Kennedy conspiracies were rooted in an absence of documentary evidence, the 9/11 theories benefited from a surfeit of it. So many pictures from 9/11 flooded the internet, often without much context about what was being shown, that conspiracy theorists could pick and choose among them to show off exactly the narrative they preferred. There is also the looming specter of Photoshop: Now, because any digital image can be doctored, people can freely dismiss any bit of inconvenient documentary evidence as having been somehow altered.

This gets to the deeper problem: We all tend to filter documentary evidence through our own biases. Researchers have shown that two people with differing points of view can look at the same picture, video or document and come away with strikingly different ideas about what it shows.

That dynamic has played out repeatedly this year. Some people look at the Wiki Leaks revelations about Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and see a smoking gun, while others say it’s no big deal, and that besides, it’s been doctored or stolen or taken out of context. Surveys show that people who liked Mr. Trump saw the Access Hollywood tape where he casually referenced groping women as mere “locker room talk”; those who didn’t like him considered it the worst thing in the world.

One of the apparent advantages of online news is persistent fact-checking. Now when someone says something false, journalists can show they’re lying. And if the fact-checking sites do their jobs well, they’re likely to show up in online searches and social networks, providing a ready reference for people who want to correct the record.

But that hasn’t quite happened. Today dozens of news outlets routinely fact-check the candidates and much else online, but the endeavor has proved largely ineffective against a tide of fakery.

That’s because the lies have also become institutionalized. There are now entire sites whose only mission is to publish outrageous, completely fake news online (like real news, fake news has become a business). Partisan Facebook pages have gotten into the act; a recent Buzz Feed analysis of top political pages on Facebook showed that right-wing sites published false or misleading information 38 percent of the time, and lefty sites did so 20 percent of the time.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#148102: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:35:36 PM

Could really use another Trump gaffe right now, the polls seem to be getting even more ambiguous. But maybe a tighter election (I think the Clinton landslide is dead) will drive the Dems out at least?

edited 2nd Nov '16 6:35:54 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#148103: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:35:50 PM

[up][up] Welcome to postmodernism? It's fucked up, but we here. These days "non-biased journalism" is code for "journalism supporting my biases".

In other news, just in general, calm down folks. I know it sounds like I'm making light of the situation here, but seriously, calm down. Just tune out of the political cycle for a bit. This hype culture does no one any favors.

EDIT: I might have misinterpreted what [up] said juuuust a bit, so I'll shift said comment to a more general address.

edited 2nd Nov '16 6:39:05 PM by InAnOdderWay

Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#148104: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:38:21 PM

This idea that Hillary isn't really a liberal is easily debunked bullshit. Her voting record as a Senator is 93% in line with Liberal Saint Bernie's.

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
InAnOdderWay Since: Nov, 2013
#148105: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:41:43 PM

[up] Can I get a source on that? In this news cycle facts and fiction get tossed around like candy, just want to be sure.

Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#148106: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:44:16 PM

Here's one.

This Politifact article explains some of the exceptions.

edited 2nd Nov '16 6:44:45 PM by Lennik

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#148107: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:44:46 PM

@Odder, I'm still pretty confident that the Americans won't fuck over humanity on Tuesday. A Trump gaffe would make me feel a lot better though.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#148108: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:53:11 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Honestly, this is the reason why I left the skeptic movements, not because they became toxic (they didn't) or because they became a circlejerk (kinda did), but because spending time debunking conspiracy theories and refuting misinformation was becoming both time consuming and honestly it felt like it had diminishing returns, arguing with conspiracy theorists and nutters was futile as none of them were changing their minds, to the point that instead of trying to change the minds of the people deep in conspiracy theories the folks at the Skeptic Project focused on providing information for those who didn't fall deep in the sinkhole. Which arguably had better results.

But then, politics got involved in debunking and correcting misinformation, which made things worse because if you didn't align yourself with a political ideology you'd be just a shill trying to get votes for another political entity. It is incredibly hard to not be overwhelmed by all the falsehoods being produced and doing so opens you to attacks too. I lost the count of how many times I've been called a kike disinfo agent at the service of the NWO since the conspiracies over the housing bubble burst became a thing.

edited 2nd Nov '16 6:53:35 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#148109: Nov 2nd 2016 at 6:56:16 PM

Re that topic of unbelievability and tropeiness of this election, Trump is pretty well-covered. The tl; dr is that he's an over-the-top Politically Incorrect Villain.

For Clinton, one thing that struck me is the fact that she has an advisor whose last name is actually Mook.

Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#148110: Nov 2nd 2016 at 7:22:56 PM

I'm confused and scared. Is this anti or pro Trump?

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#148111: Nov 2nd 2016 at 7:23:13 PM

[up][up]Not just her adviser — Robby Mook is her campaign manager, and a pretty good one.

[up]Neither. It's Japanese.

edited 2nd Nov '16 7:23:36 PM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#148112: Nov 2nd 2016 at 7:27:18 PM

Regarding Trump, all I can think of is the saying that the difference between fiction and reality is that reality doesn't have to make sense.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#148113: Nov 2nd 2016 at 7:30:40 PM

Neither does fiction, really.

Oh God! Natural light!
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#148114: Nov 2nd 2016 at 7:35:54 PM

Haven't been here in a while. I think the election wore me out.

A new report out tonight says that there were some pretty fierce internal tensions between FBI investigators and Justice Department officials over whether they had enough to pursue an “aggressive” investigation into the Clinton Foundation.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#148115: Nov 2nd 2016 at 7:45:55 PM

[up]Comey's just making shit up at this point, isn't he?

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#148116: Nov 2nd 2016 at 7:47:44 PM

Those "Japanese" Trump ads are not actually Japanese at all. They instead make fun of stereotypes regarding how Japanese ads are designed.

Anyway, what got me to stop believing in all the conspiracy wacko stuff was a couple things. Watching many of their predictions fail to come true, noticing holes in their logic, and also, just plain losing interest and walking away. As I spent more time away from them, their beliefs fell apart for me.

Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#148117: Nov 2nd 2016 at 7:52:41 PM

The big thing that has kept me away from conspiracies (aside from the complete lack of empirical evidence) is the simple understanding that the world is not ordered and that if two political parties can't even work together to pass a budget, the level of collusion it would take to manipulate the entire country into silence about crazy stories would be flat out impossible.

And always keep Occam's Razor in mind.

edited 2nd Nov '16 7:54:49 PM by Lennik

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#148119: Nov 2nd 2016 at 8:10:56 PM

[up][up] Though the well-thought-out, if outlandish, ones do make out for some excellent reading around a campfire.

edited 2nd Nov '16 8:11:12 PM by Shippudentimes

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#148121: Nov 2nd 2016 at 8:46:37 PM

[up][up][up][up]This was one of my main arguments against conspiracies. The levels of competency required to pull what the conspiracy theorists claim it is happening virtually impossible, because people are incompetent.

But then, they rationalize that those mishaps "we know off" are all part of the plan and the incompetence is intentional.

[up]The doublethink is strong.

edited 2nd Nov '16 8:48:24 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#148122: Nov 2nd 2016 at 8:51:28 PM

I never bought into most conspiracy theories. Then I noticed the Unfortunate Implications behind some conspiracy theories and theorists, so I finally recognized the overlap between conspiracy theorists, the things they peddle, and some of their believers.

But people are going to believe what they want to believe, I guess.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

edited 2nd Nov '16 8:53:02 PM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#148123: Nov 2nd 2016 at 9:17:53 PM

Aaaand my ticket to the watch party is in hand, as is my personal bottle of bubbly. Now to wait for glory. Even if it is in mildly pink GA.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#148124: Nov 2nd 2016 at 9:30:42 PM

I've got next week "off" (as in I have two major papers to write) so I'll be falling back on a bottle of Canadian Club 12 year to get through election night.

I've decided against buying a second bottle and labeling it "In case of Trump victory: Chug".tongue

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#148125: Nov 2nd 2016 at 9:54:42 PM

[up] You'd be better off with a cyanide pill in the case of a Trump victory.


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