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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#146401: Oct 25th 2016 at 8:18:16 AM

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/how-democrats-killed-their-populist-soul/504710/ - How the post-Watergate Democrat shift to social policy accidentally pushed them rightward on economic policy and deliberately away from white Southern voters. (Long reading)

Is an interesting counterpoint to the republican Southern Strategy. Also advocates the point of view that the Dems were greatly responsible for pushing new suply-side econimic theories.

edited 25th Oct '16 8:20:33 AM by Elle

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#146402: Oct 25th 2016 at 8:23:26 AM

I find a lifetime ban from the sport for gambling with it to be ridiculous
If you're the MLB, you have to be absolutely draconian about maintaining the integrity of the sport. The reason betting on games you're playing in is forbidden is because you can bet against yourself and then deliberately lose in order to make a whole lot of money. The instant the sport gets a reputation for match fixing, the league is dead. If MLB goes easy on anyone who gets caught doing it, they'll be (not incorrectly) accused of being complicit.

And it's not like people betting on their own games don't know the consequences if they're caught. There are situations where second chances are warranted, but this isn't one of them.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#146404: Oct 25th 2016 at 8:43:34 AM

On coal rolling

Jesus f*cking Christ. Thousands of years from now, the next generation of sentient species will discover records of these days and finally have an answer for what became of human civilization.

“Oh. They stupided themselves into oblivion. Mystery solved, you guys! They were just a dumb, primitive species. Anyways, pass me the gronkle pipe, I'm sobering up. These records gave me a sweet idea for upgrades to my flobbermobile that I want to install right after we finish today's worship tenet from the Holy Eyeball on why the left-handers are a subglorkan beast race."

Honestly, it really seems like there needs to be a point where the President just puts their foot down on stuff like this.

That's what Executive Orders are for, but there's a limit to how much they can actually do. Obama's been heavily criticized for signing more Executive Orders than any other President. He had to put down his foot on a lot of things during his Presidency. It's how he got so much shit done.

How many times does it have to be said—there's nothing you can do to help these people. The industry they worked in is dead and the politicians they support vote against giving them welfare and/or job retraining. They have cut their own throats and my heart does not bleed for them.

Yeah, Ambar put this succinctly. There is a natural law that has existed since before civilization was a thing and is still around today, much as Creationists like to naysay it. It's called evolution and it's based on one simple tenet: adapt or die.

The coal industry is extinct. It's never coming back. Never. It has become an obsolete technology and has gone away forever. People whose livelihoods are built on the backs of coal are thus presented with a choice: they can adapt to the change in their situation and find a new livelihood, or they can cling to the old ways, demand that the universe change to incorporate them, and die out in short order.

And every time they push against welfare systems and basic income and other subsidies that might allow them to adapt easier, they are biting the hand that feeds them. They demand that our economy must be a bitter and violent competition where the strong rise and the weak die off, then they whine because they're losing.

There is a lot of middle ground between "Do what they want!" and "Ignore them to die".

And it is the government's job to find and provide it. Doesn't matter if they voted for the other guy.

The people are not to blame, they are victims. To blame are the politicians who use the for votes and then shoot them in the back in betrayal.

They are failing their charge.

It does matter that they voted for the other guy. It matters because their votes put the other guy in Congress and now he's obstructing any effort to help them, and they are celebrating him for doing it.

It's not just about who's President. It's about who else they're electing to champion the causes that are slowly killing them. They're like a wounded tiger on a chain who will f*cking maul you if you try to help it. The political leaders they vote into office are the teeth and claws keeping potential helpers at a distance and ensuring their demise.

We can't just fix them. Nothing is going to change until they accept what needs to be done.

edited 25th Oct '16 8:43:56 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#146405: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:08:03 AM

Yeah, the issue isn't just that the coal industry is dying. It's that the legislatures in states like West Virginia are doing everything in their power to cripple any attempts to move away from coal. West Virginia, to continue with the example, has other resources they could use, but the legislature and the industry is completely fixated on coal, to the point that they're actually ruining the other resources. WV has a ton of forests, but they're being cut down...to get at the coal, and the resulting wood isn't even being sold on a big scale.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#146407: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:27:07 AM

[up] How do you spill a gas...oh, you mean petrol? surprised

edited 25th Oct '16 9:27:44 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#146408: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:38:17 AM

Basically.

Sometimes I hate free enterprise >_<

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#146409: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:39:19 AM

@Elle: I am disappointed that no one wants to talk about your article since it is very enlightening to how someone like Trump could rise to become the nominee of a major political party.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#146410: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:40:44 AM

Many of us have already seen a lot of articles like it. How this happened is kinda old news. Trevor Noah even did a segment on it.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#146411: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:48:03 AM

[up] and [up][up] The article I linked is more focused...actually exclusively focused...on the Democrat's role in it.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#146412: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:49:49 AM

Essentially they abandoned trust busting and focused more on civl rights issues.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#146413: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:54:43 AM

And helped give rise to the Chicago economic school that gave us neoclassical and "trickle down". /sigh

Yeah, it hasn't been all rosy. Modern liberal economists have been fighting a bitter war against that nonsense.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#146414: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:56:42 AM

It's not an either-or; you can be for the benefit of the working class and in support of racial, gender, and sexual equality. The Democrats needed to do Civil Rights, mostly because black people were living in oppression, but also because it exorcised a lot of negative influences in the party, the segregationists most prominently. But helping working families doesn't have to be concurrent with throwing social justice under the bus.

edited 25th Oct '16 9:57:37 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#146415: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:59:26 AM

[up] Indeed that's what the article argues near the end.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#146416: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:04:18 AM

And as part of it they consciously made the decision to abandon going after poor white Southerners which left the door open for the Republican Southern Strategy to work. They cut the racists out but didn't do much economically to defuse them.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#146417: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:21:44 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/gavin-macfadyen-defender-of-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-dies-at-76/2016/10/24/69089e30-99f2-11e6-b3c9-f662adaa0048_story.html

    Gavin Mac Fadyen, defender of Wiki Leaks founder Julian Assange, dies at 76 
Gavin Mac Fadyen, an American investigative journalist who was a prominent advocate for members of his profession, for their sources and for Julian Assange, the embattled founder of the Wiki Leaks anti-secrecy website, died Oct. 22 at a hospital in London. He was 76.

His wife, Susan Benn, confirmed his death. The cause was lung cancer, according to an announcement by the London-based Centre for Investigative Journalism (CIJ), which Mr. Mac Fadyen helped found and where he was director at the time of his death.

Mr. Mac Fadyen spent much of his professional life in England, where he established himself as a producer and director of documentaries that aired on outlets that included the BBC and Granada Television’s “World in Action,” a British investigative program that has been compared with the CBS News’s “60 Minutes.” In the United States, his work was seen on programs such as the PBS documentary series “Frontline.”

He traveled around the world for his reportage, according to CIJ, covering topics that included the neo-Nazi movement in Britain, organized crime in China, the diamond trade in Africa, electoral fraud in South America, arms trafficking in the Middle East, nuclear proliferation and environmental degradation. In situations of what he considered paramount public interest, he worked in disguise.

Mr. Mac Fadyen founded CIJ in 2003 as a training ground for reporters in his field. He also was credited with helping found the Global Investigative Journalism Network, an association of nonprofit organizations, and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism in London.

“Gavin created an environment where everybody was helping everybody else,” Mark Lee Hunter, a Paris-based investigative journalist, said in an interview.

Through his work, Mr. Mac Fadyen developed an intense concern for whistleblowers, the sources who may risk their jobs or safety to reveal to a reporter evidence of corporate, governmental or other wrongdoing.

“It’s a dangerous thing being a whistleblower,” Mr. Mac Fadyen said last year in a speech covered by the Cape Argus of South Africa. “Many lost their wives, children and often livelihood. They needed protection.”

In time, CIJ began offering legal and psychological support to whistleblowers. Through that work, Mr. Mac Fadyen met Assange, the Australian national who founded Wiki Leaks in 2006 as a clearinghouse for leaked information.

The site attracted widespread attention after the publication in 2010 of tens of thousands of State and Defense Department documents leaked by Army analyst Chelsea Manning. Manning is serving a 35-year prison sentence imposed in 2013 by a military judge.

More recently, Wiki Leaks published a trove of hacked emails from the campaign of Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

Many investigative journalists, while supporting transparency and related principles, vigorously oppose Assange’s methods, arguing that he essentially dumps information into the public arena without adequate consideration of how the information was obtained or of potential privacy or security concerns.

In 2012, facing a rape allegation in Sweden and fearing extradition to the United States, Assange took up residence at the Ecuadoran Embassy in London, where he remains today. Mr. Mac Fadyen helped organize a legal defense committee and at times spoke on his behalf. In 2012, he declared that while Assange’s embassy abode was “not quite the Hilton,” it was also true that “we have all had worse.”

Speaking to the London Observer, Mr. Mac Fadyen described Assange as an “inspirational figure” and “probably the most intelligent person I’ve ever worked with,” despite his “unusual amount of self-confidence.”

Mr. Mac Fadyen saw a “natural community of interest” between journalists and hackers, both of whom, he said, sought information and had come under increasing pressures.

“There is a free Internet, there is a free press, and there is free speech,” he said in a 2014 speech reported by the London Guardian, “and we share all of those things together.”

Gavin Hall Galter was born in Greeley, Colo., on Jan. 1, 1940, and grew up in Chicago. His mother was a pianist. He did not know his father and eventually took the surname of his stepfather, a medical researcher.

Mr. Mac Fadyen studied at numerous high schools and universities before working as a field organizer with trade unions. He was jailed for participating in civil rights demonstrations, according to a biography provided by CIJ, before moving to England, where he joined the International Socialist Organization.

After graduating from the London School of Film Technique, he founded a film group that covered events that included race riots, anti-Vietnam War demonstrations and the turbulent 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago for the BBC. He also reported on the war between the right-wing rebel contras and the Marxist Sandinista government in Nicaragua in the 1980s.

His film work included collaborations with directors John Frankenheimer and Michael Mann. According to CIJ, he served as a technical adviser to Mann on “The Insider” (1999), which starred Russell Crowe as Jeffrey Wigand, a tobacco executive who exposed industry secrets about cigarette manufacturing, in particular regarding the addictive nature of nicotine.

Mr. Mac Fadyen’s marriage to Virginia Daum ended in divorce. Survivors include his partner of 20 years, Susan Benn, whom he married in 2010, of London; a son from his first marriage, Michael Mac Fadyen of London; three stepdaughters, Sarah Saunders of Sussex, England, and Deborah Ramsay and Samantha Mc Lean, both of London; and six grandchildren.

Last week, following Wikileaks’s publication of the leaked Clinton emails, the Ecuadoran government declared that Ecuador “does not meddle in electoral campaigns nor support any candidate in particular” and announced that Assange’s Internet access at the embassy would be “temporarily restricted.”

After Mr. Mac Fadyen’s death, Wiki Leaks tweeted a tribute: “Gavin Macfadyen, beloved director of Wiki Leaks, now takes his fists and his fight to battle God. Sock it to him, forever, Gavin.” The tweet was signed with the initials “JA."

edited 25th Oct '16 10:23:36 AM by sgamer82

Shippudentimes Since: Dec, 2012
#146418: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:23:22 AM

This piece of troll news apparently resurfaced. When did this first pop up? Because it's the first I'm hearing of this hoax.

EDIT: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/politics/donald-trump-interviews.html?mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=61804C05CE159EE3D675FA4846C7CCEF&gwt=pay

EDIT EDIT: [down] Give it at least 12 hours with the anti-Hillary portion of Trump supporters

edited 25th Oct '16 10:27:56 AM by Shippudentimes

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#146419: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:23:57 AM

[up][up] So, how long until he's labelled another victim of the secret Clinton murders?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#146420: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:27:14 AM

The accusations probably started at his deathbed.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#146421: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:27:18 AM

[up][up]I found it because of that. A Facebook post where the original post said "Freakin kilary. .:("

Fortunately the person who shared it did so asking for a fact check so I linked the WaPo article and an announcement by the Centre for Investigative Journalism written by his wife.

edited 25th Oct '16 10:27:31 AM by sgamer82

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#146422: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:31:21 AM

[up]God, her name's Killary. Double-L. Get it right, you illiterate Philistines.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#146423: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:36:00 AM

Oh come on, did Clinton manage to hit him with her cancer satellite? Or was it her patented genetic tampering ray? How can people believe this nonsense, even in small numbers?

Seriously, the crap people spew (even if they aren't serious) boggles the mind. I'd like to think its just the internet giving people who really don't have anything useful to say a platform. I'd like to hope that the number of people who believe the really wacky conspiracies (I'm talking NWO, Reptilians, Info Wars levels of crazy here) isn't going up.

edited 25th Oct '16 10:41:35 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Superdark33 The dark Mage of the playground from Playgrounds and Adventures Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The dark Mage of the playground
#146424: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:41:58 AM

The accusitions started before he even died.

Edit: [up] the accusitions came before he even had cancer

edited 25th Oct '16 10:42:53 AM by Superdark33

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#146425: Oct 25th 2016 at 10:45:50 AM

The accusations started before he was even born. Before Hillary was even born.

Hillary has been accused of murder before there were even humans to murder.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

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