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KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#146351: Oct 24th 2016 at 7:40:35 PM

[up][up] Well, what do you propose they do?

edited 24th Oct '16 7:50:00 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#146352: Oct 24th 2016 at 7:47:43 PM

There isn't much that can be done, non-renewable resources run out. When they do you gotta move and adapt elsewhere.

It's the same thing as the gold rush.

I live in a city which has had the same problem but for oil.

edited 24th Oct '16 7:49:32 PM by Memers

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#146353: Oct 24th 2016 at 7:53:22 PM

I don't think the dems are being particularly high handed about anything. But the problem is no matter how empathetic anyone is some jobs are just going to be lost to time.

Also, proof that these solar panels are going to be manufactured in China? Also also, I'm going to point out that the installation and maintainence of these solar panels can't be outsourced to China and thus creates jobs right here in America. These job opportunities will be around for a while, as well as the research and development of such, unlike jobs around coal and oil. The oil industry will probably last a good bit longer than coal, though.

edited 24th Oct '16 7:54:06 PM by AceofSpades

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#146354: Oct 24th 2016 at 7:53:36 PM

As I said previously, I live in a city that was built around a single resource. The only difference between us and coal country is what we pulled outta the ground and yet if we shut down all the mines today I don't see it being a city ruining event. Why? We diversified. Post-secondary education, government work, telemarketing, whatever wasn't mining related and could earn a buck we went in for and it worked. The days of coal mining may be over but we live in a global world, there's always a buck to be made in something.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#146355: Oct 24th 2016 at 7:57:34 PM

[up][up][up][up] Maybe convey a less smug and arrogant tone when talking about destroying people's livelihoods. But that is just tonal. Like I said their policies may be correct, indeed they may very well save the world. But it still disgust me on a level. This is a more extreme example, but you can say believe the Atomic bomb was necessary to end World War 2, but still be disgusted with the violence, and maybe by the way the decision is cavalierly discussed in some circles. It was necessary, but it still felt wrong. Again this is an extreme example.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#146356: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:01:28 PM

The coal towns, though, were run by companies that did everything possible to prevent diversification. It's easier to make a profit when you own literally every business in town. The oil companies, being giant transnationals, are a lot less likely to do that.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#146357: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:03:37 PM

[up][up] How exactly are they being smug about it?

Oh God! Natural light!
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#146358: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:09:48 PM

Once again, environmental policies aren't destroying livelihoods. Those livelihoods were already doomed before environmental issues even enter the picture.

As long as we're talking about coal, anyway. It's possible that Oil & Gas could have their futures cut short by environmental policies. But really, in the long term that amounts to the same thing as coal.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#146359: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:11:41 PM

Well, oil isn't only used for fuel. It's used in plastic and some areas of food production, so I doubt that oil will drop down as far as coal has.

Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#146360: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:14:13 PM

As I said previously, I live in a city that was built around a single resource. The only difference between us and coal country is what we pulled outta the ground and yet if we shut down all the mines today I don't see it being a city ruining event. Why? We diversified. Post-secondary education, government work, telemarketing, whatever wasn't mining related and could earn a buck we went in for and it worked. The days of coal mining may be over but we live in a global world, there's always a buck to be made in something.

That's true, but again, it's not the blue collar's fault that their districts couldn't adapt. So blaming them for being attached to their jobs or missing them is missing the point. They have to choose between one candidate who ignores them altogether, and one who gives them scraps of hope. Even if, when you look at the big picture, it is meaningless, Trump offers more hope to them than Clinton.

Those people might actually be among the few who would vote Trump out of hope instead of hate /fear. During the entire piece I watched, I never saw them blaming China or whatever other country over their jobs - they blamed the administrations that promoted new energy sources. If it was only about automatization of the coal industry, then there might have been layoffs, but the people remaining would feel safe, because their industry would have a future.

Blaming common people for some bad decisions made by county authorities, or governors, or senators, over the last decades...it does not feel right. It is pretty much similar to workers getting fired because their company lost money, or moved its activities somewhere else to save some - they have next to nothing to do with that, they are just left there trying to find a new income source. You just can't go to this people and say "But Syria! But Russia! Abortion! Women's rights!".

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#146361: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:33:17 PM

they blamed the administrations that promoted new energy sources.

They can blame the administration all they like but it doesn't change the fact that natural gas is at fault and not green energy. Gas is to blame for the death of coal and gas isn't a new energy.

Yes they need a solution and they need help, but they're being wilfully ignorant when they blame new energy sources for the death of coal.

In the end the left would be more willing to help them if they stopped blaming the left for shit that the left never did.

edited 24th Oct '16 8:33:42 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#146362: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:44:33 PM

But I wish some governments were above cherry-picking measures that only please their base, and also tried to improve the life of those who don't vote for them.

Saying "we don't help you because you don't like us", how to put it...it's not the right mindset for someone who is in charge of a country IMO.

edited 24th Oct '16 8:45:37 PM by Julep

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#146363: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:48:24 PM

How many times does it have to be said—there's nothing you can do to help these people. The industry they worked in is dead and the politicians they support vote against giving them welfare and/or job retraining. They have cut their own throats and my heart does not bleed for them.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#146364: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:50:26 PM

I mean I wouldn't word it quite like that but that is sorta the situation.

Oh really when?
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#146366: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:52:59 PM

Except it's the people in power job to help, even if the people in question might not want it. How is another story, but you don't just give up on them because they do stupid shit. Otherwise no society would survive.

Like, I'm not trying to argue that coal isn't a dead/dying industry, or that it should be saved, but that just seems pretty basic.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#146367: Oct 24th 2016 at 8:56:11 PM

There's not a ton to do honestly. A lot of this is down to local governments too.

Barring something massive and unprecedented like universal income the federal government has few options.

Oh really when?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#146368: Oct 24th 2016 at 9:00:48 PM

There is stuff to do, it's just stuff that congress would have to do, you know, the congress run by the people these guys vote for.

You'd need a stimulus and national job retraining scheme, that's not gonna pass a Republican congress.

So yeah, even if we were willing to help them we can't, because they've voted in a bunch of guys who won't let us.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#146369: Oct 24th 2016 at 9:03:54 PM

Oh, man, I don't even want to IMAGINE what the political situation will be like when we start discussing Basic Income seriously.

It'll make out current environment look like a walk through Central Park.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#146370: Oct 24th 2016 at 9:08:26 PM

I'm not exactly well-read on basic income or anything but just from the premise it's going to require an elephantine change in our cultural values since so much of our society is based around the idea of a person needing to hold a job to be a valuable member of society.

The reality that eventually there won't be enough jobs for everyone is kind of a Mind Screw in and of itself to a lot of people.

I imagine the transition period for that is also going to be pretty damn bumpy.

edited 24th Oct '16 9:10:42 PM by Draghinazzo

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#146371: Oct 24th 2016 at 9:09:59 PM

Honestly, it really seems like there needs to be a point where the President just puts their foot down on stuff like this.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#146372: Oct 24th 2016 at 9:17:54 PM

[up] Then you have people screaming "dictator" and all that garbage.

Concerning coal miners siding with Trump — I've already mentioned it's a dumb thing to do, since Trump supports the very industry that is screwing them over: natural gas. To say nothing of his long, long history of screwing over workers. They are blaming the wrong people and the wrong things for their problems. If apathy is the Democratic Party voter base's weakness, misblaming is the Republican Party voter base's weakness.

Reminds me of an article about people in a poor rural community who had insufficient health coverage. They're supporting Trump hoping that "trickle-down" might give them enough money to save themselves, though even they doubt it. They haven't even considered voting for HRC even though her platform includes additional health care funding that could potentially save their lives.

edited 24th Oct '16 9:21:17 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#146373: Oct 24th 2016 at 9:19:21 PM

[up][up]:Legally, they can't. The powers of budget and taxes are explicitly given to Congress in the Constitution.

edited 24th Oct '16 9:20:08 PM by Elle

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#146374: Oct 24th 2016 at 9:22:37 PM

[up] Which is why poor President Obama could barely get anything done in his first term. The GOP dominated Congress hated the idea of having a black Democrat in the WH so much that they vowed to obstruct everything he proposed and make him a one-term POTUS.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#146375: Oct 24th 2016 at 9:26:09 PM

They did a pilot run of basic income in Canada so I'm wondering if it could be attempted at the state level. Switzerland also tried but it was voted down in the end.


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