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JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#145876: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:45:56 PM

[up] Don't get me wrong they believe in things like freedom and democracy, thought they tend to have their own vocabulary for them, but they tend to view them as international left wing values and view the United States as a reactionary racist country holding those things back.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
BestOf MOD FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#145877: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:46:13 PM

[up][up]I get what you mean but that's just spam. Let's try to keep some kind of standard, OK?

edited 22nd Oct '16 12:46:26 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#145878: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:47:16 PM

[up][up]Not really? Jack you've got some really weird ideas on what the left and the Democrats are about.

Like, have you been paying attention to the nation at large?

Oh really when?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#145879: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:47:25 PM

Just three question marks would have sufficed dude.

Jack I am still trying to make sense of what you said.

edited 22nd Oct '16 12:48:27 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#145880: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:49:01 PM

[up][up][up][up] Those are international values, and the only people holding them back are folks like the alt-right, who say shit like #RepealThe19th

[up] Sorry bout that. I just felt like all the questionmarks in the world couldn't express my complete and utter confusion

edited 22nd Oct '16 12:50:32 PM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#145881: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:51:20 PM

The Dem base is far from apathetic towards patriotism, the Democratic conference proved that.

Now the Greens are anti-US, that's actually the only way their foreign policy platform makes sense, it's not pro anything (even the environment), it's just anti the United States current focus.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145882: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:52:14 PM

Democrats are trying to reclaim patriotism. The GOP think they are still patriots, but they've succumbed to nationalism.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#145883: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:52:59 PM

@Jackolantern 1337 You seem to be complaining about the anti-imperialist/alt-left. They're a fringe in US politics and hate the Democrats, hence they flock to the Greens. The Democrats and mainstream left want change within the system, not its downfall. By Orwell's standards that's the textbook definition of patriotism.

edited 22nd Oct '16 12:55:05 PM by AlleyOop

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#145884: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:53:22 PM

Welp, just got back from early voting. Was pretty easy.

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#145885: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:57:54 PM

@US/Russian conflict: A nuclear engagement is the end result of a US/Russian war and neither side wants to be the one who ends the world so it's in everyone's best interest to never come to actual blows. Now can it happen? That's a more difficult question to answer.

Most of those reading this probably never checked it out but you should give The Day After a shot if your into movies that saved the world. It takes a mostly realistic look at what a post-nuclear america would look like but the more pertinent part is how the world got there and that is through a series of min-escalations until someone finally hits the big button. Sfdebris has a video for those interested in a video essay.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#145886: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:58:30 PM

[up][up]Could you describe exactly how it happened? I'm not from the US so it'd be interesting to hear a first-hand account of another country's early voting.

EDIT:[nja]

edited 22nd Oct '16 12:58:41 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#145887: Oct 22nd 2016 at 12:59:02 PM

It seemed to me like Hillary is using the same form of patriotism I hold. The US isn't a good place. It has never been a good place. But it's still our home, and we can make it a good place, and help other countries become better with us.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#145888: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:00:39 PM

[up][up]Not all that much to say. I went to the place, showed my drivers license and then went to a machine. I went later in the day, which made it even easier.

edited 22nd Oct '16 1:01:20 PM by LSBK

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#145889: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:01:00 PM

War isn't going to happen because of the emails or due to the Putinbots trying to mess the US election system, no one on either side is stupid enough to go to war for such petty reason.

But whenever Hillary says "Russia" Putin's popularity at Russia and abroad rises though and Putin knows it.

Inter arma enim silent leges
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#145890: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:03:31 PM

Putin isn't going to let a nuclear war happen and neither will Clinton. Both of them are probably the most qualified people in the world for their jobs and they both know how the whole international diplomacy and conflict game is played.

Open conflict, even if it's not nuclear, is extreme detrimental to both sides and runs counter to ours and their interests. We're both gonna do everything to avoid it.

Oh really when?
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#145891: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:14:22 PM

And despite Rational Wiki's insistence that Hillary is a warhawk (they're supposed to against the anti-imperialist left, but their articles on her reek of far left propagandizing), she knows as well as anyone else that actually going to war with Russia is a fruitless endeavor.

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#145892: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:20:38 PM

Eh,she's pretty hawkish, or more specifically, she's not averse to putting down small countries when it benefits the US. I don't see her picking a fight if victory isn't assured though. We might see a Guantanamo type situation in the Philippines if that idiot follows through on his rhetoric but I seriously doubt he's doing more then trying to get the US off his back.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#145893: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:29:35 PM

Hawkishness is relative, though honestly the only legitimate concern about Clinton starting WW3 would be if she bought Wesley Clark out of retirement and into a position of power, as Clark did once try and start WW3.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145894: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:32:06 PM

This Vox article suggests that determining whether HRC is a true hawk or dove is very complicated. The gist of it is that HRC is a believer in America's merits and power and that the country should be engaged in the world. But she believes that power is not limited to military power alone. She's actually more likely to resort to nonviolent and diplomatic solutions. But again, it's complicated.

edited 22nd Oct '16 1:34:20 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145896: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:35:55 PM

It's also a little unfair to compare her record to the other candidates and brand her as the most hawkish, since most of the others never had much to do with foreign policy. She was the friggin' Secretary of State.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#145897: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:40:45 PM

Oh lord, the war with Russia thing again. I was making fun of this just a few pages back.

To anybody who thinks that no-fly zone will somehow lead to a war with Russia—have you never read a history book? Are you somehow not cognizant of the fact that America repeatedly shot down Soviet planes during the Cold War? Did you miss the Korean War and Vietnam Wars in which Soviet and American pilots fought one another as a part of a proxy war? The USA has killed Russians before. The Russians have, for that matter, killed Americans before. The world is still here.

@Best Of

The only part of your otherwise excellent post that you may be wrong about is the notion that no nation in NATO would ever use nuclear weapons without American permission. That's true of the British, perhaps, but not the French. During the Cold War, French nuclear policy was far more radical than American or British—or Soviet—policy, calling for the use of tactical nuclear warheads to annihilate conventional Warsaw Pact forces in the event they broke through the line in Germany and endangered France. While the French have decommissioned many of their Cold War warheads, including all their land-based IRBMs they still have the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world (in terms of number of warheads, not kilotons), and remain open about their willingness to use them (one French official actually threatened nuclear retaliation against al-Qaeda in 2006 if memory serves, though luckily nothing came of that).

Now, obviously, the Russians aren't going to be threatening Paris anytime soon, but when it comes to nuclear weapons and Europe, France does remain something of a wildcard. There's a reason why I was joking a few pages back about Trump deciding to invade France and causing the USA to get nuked with missiles bearing the legend "Fuck you, monsieur" on the side.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#145898: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:40:56 PM

Hillary had to consider launching attacks from foreign countries in ways none of the other candidates had because it was part of her freakin' job.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145899: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:45:47 PM

[up] [awesome] THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

Disgusted, but not surprised
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#145900: Oct 22nd 2016 at 1:46:55 PM

@fighteer: I seriously doubt she'd pick a fight she couldn't win and small countries without big friends are fair play. She's fine with moving on Libya because no one cares but I doubt she'd move on any of russias bigger allies.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

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