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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FalseDichotomy from Your mind :o Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#145601: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:13:15 PM

I'll give you morally. Which is why I'm against it in most circumstances. But the circumstances mentioned in the Le Monde article are a bit different, in that it had organized crime (Julep did specify gangsters, right?). And organized crime tends to entail the nastier acts of crime.

edited 20th Oct '16 6:23:59 PM by FalseDichotomy

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#145602: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:22:23 PM

Sanders appeal was actually pretty narrow because of his reductionist views on civil rights and social issues. Economic determinism doesn't play, and eventually he figured out that his support was coming from the left-leaning version of Trumpkins (dispossessed white working class folks), and his campaign started to degrade from there in appealing to their protectionist and somewhat nativist tendencies.

Sanders as a long time political lone wolf also lacked the network of alliances that Clinton's spent her career building.

Trump has been a trash candidate. He only beat the GOP in the primaries because of the deplorables in the base. You couldn't attack Trump's positions without pissing them off, and so he had them cornered. That and the fact that the field was too crowded, splitting the anti-Trump vote, because we note he never really surpassed 45% even in the primaries, but that was enough to win every time.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#145604: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:33:40 PM

Hillary is straight up murdering Trump at this Al-Smith Dinner.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#145605: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:34:15 PM

With the grain of salt that this is not an area I have much knowledge in, I'd argue that it's irresponsible of us to deport gangsters and similar criminals because we're better equipped to handle them than whatever country we're dumping them on. For starters, we already have legal cases built or partially built against them if we're able to deport them in the first place, whereas whichever country we send them back to is going to have to start building one from scratch once they return to their criminal activities - their crimes in America won't be prosecutable by their country of origin, remember, so they can't arrest the newly-arrived criminal until he does something in their country. That case is going to be harder to build for them, too, because the criminal has enough experience now to make far fewer mistakes that can be used to build such a case, and depending on the country, their criminal justice system may not be as strong as ours.

Simply deporting dangerous criminals is negligent on our part as citizens of the world because we're taking our problem and making it someone else's based on what may be an entirely tangential connection between the problem and the country we push it off on, and they may be far less equipped to deal with the problem once it's theirs.

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#145606: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:42:49 PM

[up][up] Yeah, she straight up slaughtered him.

edited 20th Oct '16 6:43:00 PM by rmctagg09

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#145607: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:42:54 PM

I don't know what's worse about Trump; the bile coming out of his mouth or that awful white bow tietongue.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145608: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:47:44 PM

It's doubtful that Sanders would have been able to win over the swing states and independent voters. To many Americans, "socialism" or even "Social democracy" is too close to "Communism" for their tastes. While things are changing, America probably just isn't ready for socialism yet, thanks to the prevalence of the American Dream. Culture matters.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#145609: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:49:45 PM

I agree with Wryte. It really comes down to what is lawful vs what is smart. Deporting them and going "Your prob now!" to the nation in question is lawful, but it's not helping the situation.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145610: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:50:19 PM

[up]x4 So the supposedly "stiff" and "guarded" HRC roasted Trump like a hog on a spit. [lol]

edited 20th Oct '16 6:50:56 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#145611: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:56:45 PM

They even brought that nasty old ghoul Kissinger there.

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#145612: Oct 20th 2016 at 6:57:36 PM

Sanders has a long record of statements that are somewhat incompatible with the American political mainstream. He might have been able to beat Trump, due to Donald's history as a rapist and inability to debate his way out of a paper bag (when his opponent isn't sucking up to his base) but any other Republican would have demolished him.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
FalseDichotomy from Your mind :o Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#145613: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:24:40 PM

With the grain of salt that this is not an area I have much knowledge in, I'd argue that it's irresponsible of us to deport gangsters and similar criminals because we're better equipped to handle them than whatever country we're dumping them on. For starters, we already have legal cases built or partially built against them if we're able to deport them in the first place, whereas whichever country we send them back to is going to have to start building one from scratch once they return to their criminal activities - their crimes in America won't be prosecutable by their country of origin, remember, so they can't arrest the newly-arrived criminal until he does something in their country. That case is going to be harder to build for them, too, because the criminal has enough experience now to make far fewer mistakes that can be used to build such a case, and depending on the country, their criminal justice system may not be as strong as ours.

Simply deporting dangerous criminals is negligent on our part as citizens of the world because we're taking our problem and making it someone else's based on what may be an entirely tangential connection between the problem and the country we push it off on, and they may be far less equipped to deal with the problem once it's theirs.

I don't speak French so I'm only guessing here but I'm under the impression that these gangsters were born in El Salvador, raised in El Salvador and became criminals in El Salvador and only left for the United States in order to continue their criminal activities. I'm under this impression because I find it odd that 3000 children from the same country would come here and in total coincidence grow up to enter organized crime. If the article states otherwise and someone that knows French can confirm this I'd be grateful to be set right.

Now if El Salvador is where these gangsters learned to be criminals then El Salvador is the only country that has an obligation to contain them. Even if we can do a better job of it.

Like I said earlier I'm against deporting people for the lighter crimes. But for the serious ones I believe we should make them serve out their sentence in it's entirety and then deport them. This is legal because the Supreme Court has ruled that deportation is not a form of punishment.

As for building up a legal case against them, that would mean setting them free to commit more crimes to arrest them later for. Which means we have to wait for them to commit more crimes, wait for them to hurt more American citizens. I've never bought into this whole "citizen of the world" thing. The only obligation the American criminal justice system/American Government/American citizen has is to their fellow Americans. The only exception is any country we have an agreement with (e.g. trade pact, military alliances). But as far as I'm aware of we have no agreement with El Salvador to contain their criminals.

I don't doubt that we could have stopped these gangsters from becoming local bigwigs with our justice system if we kept them. I don't doubt El Salvador would be a better place if we did. But doing so would have put American live in jeopardy. That's the only thing to be considered by the powers that be in deciding on deportation.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#145614: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:28:25 PM

I'd say that if the RNC ran with Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney or even Gingrich as the running mates, I'd say Hillary would have some serious competition for the White house, but instead she had to face Bernie and Trump.

Instead the Republicans took what could be called their most polarizing and dislikable members to run of the presidency and...I still don't know what the hell were they thinking, maybe they ran with Trump thinking what the hell could go wrong?

Inter arma enim silent leges
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#145615: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:35:03 PM

It's not that they chose Trump, but that they weren't able to stop Trump.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145616: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:48:00 PM

[up] TBH, I'm not sure most of them even tried, until they realized too late what the consequences would be for them.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#145617: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:58:48 PM

Going back to whether I'd rather Mc Cain or Rubio lose their jobs, I'd also say Rubio, not just because I dislike him more, but because I think he's more dangerous. The young, fresh-faced senator look has a great deal of appeal, as we all very well know by now, and while I don't see Mc Cain running for President again, I can see Rubio doing it.

Granted, he was humiliated in the Republican primaries, but four years is a long time - a lot can happen in between...

Oh God! Natural light!
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#145618: Oct 20th 2016 at 7:59:10 PM

Wrong thread.

edited 20th Oct '16 8:04:05 PM by rmctagg09

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#145619: Oct 20th 2016 at 8:01:12 PM

While I'm open to discussing the greater political ramifications of the new Nintendo Switch, I think you've got the wrong thread.

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145620: Oct 20th 2016 at 8:01:19 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah, I can see Rubio being more dangerous...if he can keep from guzzling water during debates.

Edit:

BTW, did anyone else catch that sad video of Mc Cain literally running away from a reporter? Oh, how the mighty have fallen. It's almost as pathetic as that video of Ted Cruz making calls for Trump.

Also, Project Veritas, a title that seems more and more ironic with each passing day, was funded by Trump. It's not really surprising that it turned out to be nothing but a bullcrap manipulative attack ad.

edited 20th Oct '16 8:17:09 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#145621: Oct 20th 2016 at 9:18:51 PM

Mc Cain is just sad now, he went from being the GOP's only sane man, to being a sane guy who had occasional bouts of madness to being a madman who has rare bouts of sanity.

I'm hearing about roasts at a dinner, will it be available on You Tube or similar at some point?

As for if Clinton would have had a harder time against other candidates, I'm not sure. Trump has got the GOP base going in a way others couldn't, he's gotten free media coverage in a way others couldn't and he's managed to play the outside card in a way that others couldn't. Trump has increased the expected GOP share of white uneducated votes, now the trade off isn't worth it but I'm not sure if Jeb or anyone else could have made a better trade off.

Trump won the primary for a reason, that reason being that the other GOP candidates were pretty pathetic.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
rfindlay from Boston Since: Dec, 2014
#145622: Oct 20th 2016 at 9:21:36 PM

[up]It's already up. I only saw Hillary's segment, but from what I heard Trump's segment was (predictably) a disaster. She did get in a few good zingers though.

edited 20th Oct '16 9:24:29 PM by rfindlay

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#145623: Oct 20th 2016 at 9:21:48 PM

[up][up] When I first saw the GOP primary nominees, the Insane Clown Posse came to mind. It was a demented circus of rightwing clowns.

[up] Trump got BOOED. That has never happened before in previous dinners.

edited 20th Oct '16 9:23:22 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#145624: Oct 20th 2016 at 9:28:13 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, the criticism of H Illary is usually that she is a lying Wall Street shill and career politician. Jeb Bush is all of these things too, for example. I'm not sure the alt-right and uneducated would be fervent about choosing yet another Bush over yet another Clinton.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#145625: Oct 20th 2016 at 9:33:16 PM

The other GOP candidates seem to be playing to issues people are caring less and less about, like religion and dogwhistles.


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