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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#144951: Oct 19th 2016 at 8:59:48 AM

I wonder who the most qualified presidents were throughout US history.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#144952: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:03:25 AM

And on another note, actually checking the contents of the emails that are so "explosive" should be a priority. The fact that Wikileaks is so determined to publish everything they get their hands on in their entirety works against their spin here, as they've provided what you need to fact check them on a plate.

Refusing to do so or running some silly search criterion and reading whatever fragments it pings and only those is playing into their hands.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144953: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:04:26 AM

Maddowblog: The idea that this is a "change" election doesn't necessarily fit the facts.

Specifically, while as many as 70% of voters surveyed say that the country is on the "wrong track", this doesn't distinguish between people who believe this because they think Democrats are making the wrong decisions while in power or because they think that Republicans are harming the country with their obstructionism, etc. The fact that Clinton is broadly winning indicates that the majority of voters are probably satisfied with the direction Democrats have been taking the country.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#144954: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:06:36 AM

Michael Moore now has his own political film against Trump. Similar to Hillary's America, now we have TrumpLand.

The fact that Moore kept the film's existence under wraps and launched it seemingly out of the blue speaks to his showbiz instincts; it's his October surprise.

The show was designed to be performed in the heart of Republican country, and that makes sense. Moore has always been accused of preaching to the liberal-left choir, but in this case he decided — wisely — to preach to the anti-choir. The movie was shot at the Murphy Theatre in the southern Ohio town of Wilmington, a region so conservative that the theater's benefactor is Glenn Beck. Up on the marquee the night of the show, the words "Trump Voters Welcome" are placed in red lettering, and there are a lot of Trump supporters in the audience — and also Hillary supporters, Bernie supporters, third party supporters, and undecideds. It's not a hostile crowd; it's just not the usual wall-to-wall Michael Moore progressive one.

Moore, backed by looming photographs of the beautiful young Hillary Clinton, offers an analysis of Trump that's all about the decline and fall of the white male in America, and he does a terrific riff on the agony that a lot of men feel. White men over 35, he announces, are just 19 precent of the population. They're fading! And they've been reduced to glorified tools who have the ability to distinguish themselves in one of two ways: they can procreate, and they can reach for things on the top shelf. (Two tasks rendered borderline irrelevant by in vitro fertilization and lightweight step ladders.) The riff works because it's rooted in Moore's sympathy — the fact that he himself is part of that once dominant but now diminishing breed, and he knows it. Yes, he talks about the loss of jobs and security and family, but mostly he talks about the loss of ego. He's brilliant in discussing the 2016 Super Bowl halftime show, with Beyoncé leading her army of black-clad feminine "s—kickers" as a key signifier in the takeover of cultural power by women.

To Moore, an angry white guy like Donald Trump provides a feeling of deliverance, as well as a promise: We will take it back to how it was. Moore is honest enough to see his own sensibilities reflected in the cosmic gripe of Trump supporters. They're in a rage at a lot of the same things he is: a government, and a corporate economy, that are no longer organized to take care of people. But the choice that Trump voters make is to lash out, and to back someone who pledges to destroy the status quo. As Moore testifies, Trump is likely to destroy it, all right — along with everything else. Moore is at his best mimicking the sound of male Trump supporters at rallies (a wail of fury fused with a caterwauling of pain) and calling it the sound of a dying dinosaur. Solidly, he builds the ground floor of an argument. I was eager to hear what he'd say about Trump next.

Well, that's all he has to say. As soon as Moore is done discussing the angry white male, he's finished talking about Trump as well. After half an hour (at most), he veers over to the subject of Hillary Clinton, and why Republicans hate her with such religious passion.

So why, in "Michael Moore in Trump Land," does Moore's analysis begin and end with the angry-white-male argument? He's correct in saying that Trump voters "want to use the ballot as an anger-management tool," yet that doesn't do justice to the range — and the media hall-of-mirrors quality — of Trump's astonishing loyalty of support. What about the endlessly resonant fact that Trump isn't a politician, but that he played one — or, at least, a boardroom demigod — on TV? Take away Trump's reality-TV celebrity, and you don't have a candidate. (Moore never mentions it.) Beyond that, the feeling shared by so many Trump supporters that their blustery boardroom Elvis is just what's needed to clear away the wreckage of a broken system puts them, in many ways, in the same camp as Bernie Sanders' supporters. Moore, in this movie, doesn't do justice to the powerful allure of that view.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#144955: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:13:21 AM

[up][up][up][up] Martin Van Buren was a senator, a secretary of state, a governor, an ambassador and a Vice President before becoming president. In terms of government exp he was probably the most.

Clinton and John Quincy Adams are on par with each other for second place with almost the same exp although Adams did a lot of it after being President.

edited 19th Oct '16 9:14:23 AM by Memers

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#144956: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:24:55 AM

Plus, we're in no way "stuck" with Hillary. She's one of, if not the, most qualified candidates in US history. She'd be an incredible president.

Unfortunately, to a lot of people actual qualifications and policy doesn't matter if the candidate isn't "inspiring" enough.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#144957: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:27:48 AM

I think its hard to match Eisenhower's resume.tongue

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#144958: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:33:07 AM

Not in actual government, he never actually held an elected office before and after being President. Grant was the same as well. Trump would be even worse though...

At least Grover Cleveland was a Mayor for two years before taking office lol.

edited 19th Oct '16 9:38:27 AM by Memers

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#144959: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:35:06 AM

[up][up][up] It's kinda funny since we're actually discussing this stuff in class right now.

edited 19th Oct '16 9:35:17 AM by rmctagg09

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#144960: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:44:54 AM

[up]I'm also taking a class where this election gets frequently discussed: Political Parties and Elections.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#144961: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:55:59 AM

I wonder if she plans on baiting him tonight for an oppo dump later on in the week.

Either way I expect her to snatch his soul away

New Survey coming this weekend!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#144962: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:57:19 AM

This is the debate with the FOX "moderator". This should be...interesting.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144963: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:59:31 AM

Chris Wallace is, at least, not the most objectionable Fox anchor who could be moderating the debate, for whatever that's worth.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#144964: Oct 19th 2016 at 9:59:51 AM

Unfortunately, to a lot of people actual qualifications and policy doesn't matter if the candidate isn't "inspiring" enough.

Well that and the fact that Clinton has been in caught in so many scandals over the years.

It doesn't matter if they're manufactured, a lot of people get the idea that she's untrustworthy either way.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#144965: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:03:34 AM

[up]I know, but that statement was more about people who don't for the most part believe the scandals and still think Sanders (or anyone else would be better) because she's "aloof" or "uninspiring" or whatever.

I should have clarified.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144966: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:03:57 AM

[up][up] It's the "spew enough bile and some is bound to stick" strategy of controlling public opinion.

Edit: In another example of Trump's campaign and Trump not talking to each other, Kellyanne Conway, Trump's campaign manager, does not believe that there will be widespread voter fraud. (Non-video story from Maddowblog)

edited 19th Oct '16 10:17:28 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#144967: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:21:03 AM

Unfortunately, to a lot of people actual qualifications and policy doesn't matter if the candidate isn't "inspiring" enough.

Inspiration is overrated. I've seen one too many leaders who were inspiring but lived on nothing but propaganda and useful idiots defending them even though they are failures as leaders.

Better have someone who's competent and can get things done than a leader that looks good and says inspiring things but can't get anything done because those inspirational acts can't be effectively done.

Inter arma enim silent leges
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#144968: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:25:19 AM

How Donald Trump's claims of vote rigging could hurt him

His repeated and unfounded charges of current vote manipulation could hurt Trump in two ways: depress turnout among his supporters and sour undecided voters, turned off by yet another conspiracy theory.

That sentence more than halfway through the article is all that needed to be said.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144969: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:27:06 AM

ThinkProgress: Liberty University is facing increasing pressure from its student body to dissociate itself from Donald Trump, despite the vocal endorsement of its president, Jerry Falwell, Jr. Falwell, while initially calling for tolerance for opposing points of view, quashed an article in the school paper this past week that was critical of Trump; the article was published independently by its writer and reposted by the Daily Beast.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#144970: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:45:20 AM

CNN has updated its electoral map, Utah and Arizona are now considered toss ups while Florida and Nevada have shifted to leaning Clinton.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/19/politics/road-to-270-electoral-college-map-5-october/index.html

Even CNN isn't willing to keep up the close race ratings stunt anymore.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#144971: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:49:57 AM

A landslide victory is probably worth its own rating chasing.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#144972: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:51:24 AM

Falwell, while initially calling for tolerance for opposing points of view, quashed an article in the school paper this past week that was critical of Trump
I know that to "walk the walk" requires varying degrees of effort (I'll admit it sometimes isn't easy giving ground to views I'm not onboard with), but have most nowadays decided that it just isn't worth it?

edited 19th Oct '16 10:53:44 AM by nervmeister

FalconX5 Nerdy glasses guy from Northwest Indiana Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Nerdy glasses guy
#144973: Oct 19th 2016 at 10:59:45 AM

He probably thought that the student body would agree with his every word no matter what he said.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144974: Oct 19th 2016 at 11:02:56 AM

Really, calling Utah a toss-up is a bit of a ratings stunt. Not one that's totally removed from reality, as there are polls showing a close race there, but there are also a fair numbers of polls showing Trump retaining a healthy lead and none that put anyone else ahead.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#144975: Oct 19th 2016 at 11:18:56 AM

Right now I'm actually more interested in what's going on on the Senate and Congress races.


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