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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144651: Oct 17th 2016 at 12:47:43 PM

Re: reasons we might elevate the DEFCON level - Biden was on Face the Nation yesterday morning and said that the US was planing its own cyberattack on Russia. (Why he was allowed to announce this on TV I have no idea. I know there are reasons to do this in a ground battle and I can't think of any of them that apply to hacking unless they are going after industrial/infrastructure sabotage.)

[up]A Facebook fight with pro-Hillary friends might have swung my mom back into a Trump vote. :P

I'm trying to be empathetic with her but there are days it's harder.

edited 17th Oct '16 12:51:00 PM by Elle

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144652: Oct 17th 2016 at 12:54:55 PM

If she can be turned to Trump out of pique at people talking about Hillary... yeah. I don't know your mom, but it's not a position I can respect.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144653: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:03:16 PM

Less pique, more like "no longer on speaking terms with a friend of 10+ years" and probably also listening to the Trump apologist stuff in her feed.

She has legitimate "life is crappy" issues (and some of them are outsourcing related in a field becoming obsolete at a job whose pay won't be matched as a new hire elsewhere at an age she's too old to retrain, others are related to having to walk away from the mortgage on her house a few years ago) but for some reason has chosen to blame them personally on Obama.

edited 17th Oct '16 1:06:00 PM by Elle

YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#144654: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:06:12 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the real nuclear option is that of the voters to vote out anyone who outright states he's going to be an obstructionist.

Of course, the big problem is likely that their voter bases will still see it as better than the wrong justice getting appointed....

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#144655: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:16:01 PM

Maybe Mc Cain is just covering his ass so he doesn't get nailed in the primaries, although the chance of him going for another term (he's up for reelection on the 8th, will almost certainly win) is pretty low, he'll die or retire most likely.

On the other hand, you can't spell crazy without "R-AZ".

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#144656: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:20:00 PM

Not really worth worrying about at this juncture. Too many factors telling them to say things like this. I await the day after elections and then we shall see who will block and not block.

GutstheBerserker from Haiti Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#144657: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:22:46 PM

So, I have a potentially very stupid question that I nevertheless wanted to submit to you guys.

I was reading this Cracked article a couple of days ago. It's actually an interesting article about the appeal of Trump in the rural parts of the US from someone who grew up in those parts.

I just couldn't help but think to myself: Does the word "conservative" accurately describe the motivations of the said political movement?

(Please note that I am just indicating that the Cracked article was what initially led me to these thoughts. I'm not claiming that Cracked is an accurate source of political news or information. It is a humour site first and foremost.)

A large part of Trump's appeal to poor, rural white Americans seems to be his willingness to "shake things up", to give a voice to a part of the population that feels ignored and to bring about grand changes in matters of immigration and economy.

How is this a "conservative" view though? I guess my question is more one of semantics and definitions, but I always associated that word with a maintaining of status-quo and a "don't rock the boat" mentallity.

By the way, I'm not American and don't have a very nuanced understanding of the political jargon at play all the time. It's just something I thought to ask here.

edited 17th Oct '16 1:24:50 PM by GutstheBerserker

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#144658: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:24:22 PM

It's a dark day in American politics when a candidate can run on the "Permanently f*ck the entire government process" platform and not be immediately laughed out of the room like a Libertarian trying to figure out what Aleppo means.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#144659: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:25:15 PM

In political terms such a movement would be called regressive, but in laymen terms of conservatives and liberals it's conservative.

Nice to see the Senate starting to swing properly Dem, 53-47 would be a nice margin, though I'll take greater if we can get it.

edited 17th Oct '16 1:26:19 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#144660: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:33:19 PM

It's more reactionary than conservative, as they're aggressively anti-status quo, and are pushing for change (of a bad sort).

Re: Shep Smith, I thought that was more or less an open secret. Though he denies that Ailes was the one keeping him in the closet, which I doubt given the timing.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144661: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:42:41 PM

20+ years ago, conservative might have meant something akin to the literal meaning of the word. Trumpists (I hate that term, makes them sound too legitimate) have pretty much abandoned any pretense of moral conservatism and the GOP hasn't practiced more than lip service to real "small government conservatism" for years.

edited 17th Oct '16 1:46:39 PM by Elle

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#144662: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:43:37 PM

Rational: the Arizona Senate primary was back on September 3rd, I think.

Guts: To add, I think the all-encompassing "conservative" anf "liberal" labels in the US is an effect of the American political tendency to be an oversimplified dichotomy, either "for" or "against" because in-betweens are indecisive wussies apparently.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#144663: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:47:11 PM

Yeah a lot of Trump supporters have demonstrated that they don't really give a shit about small government or whatever and that this was never what them voting GOP in the past was about.

They want welfare, education, etc, they just don't black and brown people to get it.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#144664: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:49:36 PM

The Cracked article raises a few fair points, first and foremost that most of the financial benefits went to the cities first and the rural areas second (or not at all). Personal example: My hometown of 2,000 people, while still functional, is hardly booming, and the good jobs are 30-60 min. away; as my dad has said a few times, the recession isn't over for everyone.

It doesn't excuse the blatant racism, sexism, xenophobia, and all the other negatives associated with the Trump campaign, though.

edited 17th Oct '16 1:50:44 PM by speedyboris

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#144665: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:50:04 PM

[up][up][up]Yep, which is why I'm somewhat surprised that he hasn't gone into a gives no fucks mode (or maybe he will after the election) for his last term. He's not the kind of Republican I associate the whole "kamikaze the government" stunt with

edited 17th Oct '16 1:50:23 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
chartoc Since: Apr, 2010
#144666: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:51:04 PM

Whoever had "cut off by Ecuador" for why Assange had no internet please collecting their winnings https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/788099178832420865

This is not going to seat well with Ecuador. The fact he and Wikileaks are whining about this might mean they could be in the process of kicking him out. Good.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144667: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:54:32 PM

Ohoho! I wonder if he'll find some other, scummier nation to host his rantings.

@speedyboris: Unfortunately, there is no simple solution to the plight of small-town, rural America. Certainly, unrestrained capitalism won't help them in the slightest. To the extent that they would get assistance, it's more likely to come with Democrats than Republicans, but unfortunately the demographic landscape points towards cities as the economic and political focus of the nation continually going forward.

"Tear it all down and try again" isn't a solution, but I can understand why they might think it's better than the status quo. The problem is that if they don't stop blaming all their problems on liberals and minorities, it's going to be a cold day in Hell before any Democrat steps in unreservedly to help them.

edited 17th Oct '16 1:57:24 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144668: Oct 17th 2016 at 1:59:26 PM

How are Equador-US relations right now? I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the US had negotiated something through diplomatic back channels (the way they had a talk with Cuba saying they'd be very unhappy if Cuba allowed Snowden in the country when he was in flight)

But it could totally be Ecuador being fed up with Assange all on their own too. Reminds me of stories of medieval monasteries (who were required to offer hospitality to travelers) doing cheeky passive-aggressive things to troublesome guests like waking them up and dragging them to midnight and dawn prayers.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#144669: Oct 17th 2016 at 2:00:11 PM

I have a lot of trouble feeling sympathy when these same people vote Republican because they hate minorities. The Democrats aren't perfect for them but voting against the party that favors welfare when you're poor yourself is idiotic. Minimum basic income would probably help too but they'd probably denounce that as evil Communism.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#144670: Oct 17th 2016 at 2:03:07 PM

What's this about Shep Smith?

Do not obey in advance.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#144671: Oct 17th 2016 at 2:05:29 PM

Quick question about Five Thirty Eight - once election results are confirmed, will they update their website's map to reflect those results?

edited 17th Oct '16 2:08:11 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#144672: Oct 17th 2016 at 2:08:28 PM

Damit should have made a bet on Assange.

By the way Utah is looking interesting this election due to the presence of a third party Mormon candidate that's taking votes from Trump. 538 have the state currently split 37.5% Trump, 28.3% Clinton, 22.6% Mc Mullin, 9.4% Johnson, so even with Trump's 9 point lead he could be in trouble, with three different candidates for his voters to jump ship to.

edited 17th Oct '16 2:09:16 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#144673: Oct 17th 2016 at 2:09:15 PM

@ Fighteer:

Unfortunately, there is no simple solution to the plight of small-town, rural America. Certainly, unrestrained capitalism won't help them in the slightest. To the extent that they would get assistance, it's more likely to come with Democrats than Republicans, but unfortunately the demographic landscape points towards cities as the economic and political focus of the nation continually going forward.

As an aside, it's not just America — you'll find similar communitiesnote  all over the Western world. In the USA, in the UK, in France and in Germany and in many other countries.

Keep Rolling On
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#144674: Oct 17th 2016 at 2:10:12 PM

Trump's wife has spoken on the Access Hollywood video, she blaming Billy Bush for egging Donald on and dismisses it as "boy talk" (while still condemning it as unacceptable).

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/politics/melania-trump-interview/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#144675: Oct 17th 2016 at 2:16:43 PM

Karkat: I don't think so - the map is mainly for forecasting results by taking in polls and other things since I'd wager the update-the-map-with-called-results-by-state thing is already being done by news networks. Rather, I think what they'll do is a liveblog as the night goes on - they may have maps ready to go on that.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.

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