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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144576: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:31:46 AM

Damage to persons or property is generally disqualified from being able to call disobedience "civil". (Spray paint is minimal damage but it is damage.)

edited 17th Oct '16 9:34:36 AM by Elle

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#144577: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:32:18 AM

[up][up][up][up]Wow, that's kind of mean.

edited 17th Oct '16 9:32:34 AM by nervmeister

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#144578: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:33:29 AM

[up][up]Not what civil means in this context.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#144579: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:39:12 AM

@Handle, you missed the "in the face of an unjust law" bit. There's nothing unjust about the laws saying you can't spray paint other people's stuff.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144580: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:41:53 AM

But it is still a useful indicator in distinguishing successful civil disobedience from not. If you're going to engage in civil disobedience, the act you engage in ought to have a very strong moral high ground so it's obvious you're doing the right thing in defiance of the law. The most moral thing you can say about vandalism is "well it didn't cause that much damage."

Those simply encamping on the land are already engaged in civil disobedience (although an odd legal situation where the oil company itself is violating the law.)

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144581: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:42:16 AM

Eh. Civil disobedience has a long history in the country but the basic idea that we've discussed is that you must be willing to face the repercussions of your actions when you break a law, even if it's in the service of a moral cause.

Building a pipeline across a Native American burial ground is kind of shitty and it's definitely a case where protests are valid. But doing it as a Presidential candidate is a little ridiculous.

edited 17th Oct '16 9:44:05 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#144582: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:42:54 AM

[up][up]What about training birds and other animals you dont technically own to shit on said property?

edited 17th Oct '16 9:43:50 AM by nervmeister

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#144583: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:44:40 AM

Had Martin Luther King Jr. stayed home and just wrote sternly-worded letters with no signatures attached to them 'cause risking serious consequences for what you believe in is hard, the civil rights cause would never have gone anywhere.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#144585: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:50:57 AM

How the vast right-wing conspiracy of the 90s started running Trump's campaign.

Also, the image of Keith Olbermann and Laura Ingram on a date is fairly mindbending.

edited 17th Oct '16 9:52:34 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144586: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:53:30 AM

Yes, King and Ghandi are today's major case studies for civil disobedience done right. And King spoke out against groups that were committing acts of vandalism and violence as well.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#144587: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:57:23 AM

You'd be amazed at how many people with MLP:FIM avatars I've seen unironically arguing antifeminist talking points about how men are the REAL victims, rape culture's a lie, etc. etc. For some reason, the show has a massive following with MR As and lop-sided Egalitarians Hey! .

I can't help but wonder how much of its appeal from men comes from having a bunch of female characters with cute voices and attractive personalities, rather than anything the show is actually supposed to be about.

The feel I got from lurking the internet hellholes is because Equestria and the Ponies would openly welcome, embrace and accept those guys because it would be a place where "everyone would love me for what I am" in their head cannon.

Basically in their heads it is the only place they will be loved and cherished without having to, you know, do anything about it or not being a horrible human being, like they act as if the world is due to recognize their awesomeness and incredible genius and there everyone else would "just know" how awesome they have and they'd be drowned in...2D and/or horse pussy.

For anime it varies a lot, but mostly as it was noted over many alt-right types being fervent anime fans and many of them simply holding female anime characters as personal property and wishing women in real life were like them. Which they believe that women receiving things as equal rights or no longer having to seek middle class something white males as the only viable and socially acceptable dating partners a major set back for them.

Also I'd love if Trump met those Alt-Right types, while they try to show Trump about their waifus and fan art only for Trump to be disgusted at them and berate them for being passive aggressive little shits who aren't a true player like Trump is.

[down] Ops, slapped an extra "n" were it wasn't supposed to go.

edited 17th Oct '16 10:02:00 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144588: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:59:05 AM

in their head cannon
So many people with cranium-mounted, large-bore projectile weaponry these days...

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#144589: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:59:43 AM

[up][up]

Also I'd love for Trump to meet those Alt-Right types, while they try to show Trump about their waifus and fan art only for Trump to be disgusted at them and berate them for being passive aggressive little shits who aren't a true player like Trump is.

...and then say something horribly racist about the Japanese?

[up] Boom, Boom...

edited 17th Oct '16 10:00:39 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#144590: Oct 17th 2016 at 9:59:52 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] Well, it was done "right" for the time period. Today, in the Information/Digital Age, that form of protest may no longer be as effective.

Also I'd love if Trump to met those Alt-Right types, while they try to show Trump about their waifus and fan art only for Trump to be disgusted at them and berate them for being passive aggressive little shits who aren't a true player like Trump is.
If the end result is an existential crisis (the foundation of personal growth/ reinvention) for both, then make it happen.

edited 17th Oct '16 10:21:39 AM by nervmeister

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#144591: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:12:40 AM

CNN poll finds 3 closes races in swing states

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#144592: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:13:10 AM

Observing a discussion between a Hilary supporter and detractor can be a very interesting thing. I just watched one (that's still going on) and before I left it went to some weird places among them are 9/11 not really being a terrorist attack and the guy saying something that amounted to "Democrats always try to use facts in discussions".

It was surreal.

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#144594: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:16:37 AM

Divine inspiration.

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#144595: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:18:10 AM

Truthiness.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#144596: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:23:57 AM

On the altright and nerd hobbies:

There are a LOT of maladjusted, nerdy young men out there. Many of them have internalized the typical toxic messages from mainstream culture, and their insecurity at failing to live up to the image they've been presented of what an "ideal man" is, has only magnified it. This massive insecurity is extremely prevalent in those subcultures, it's a huge part of what drives the behavior of 4chan, reddit, competitive games, etc.

Many of them see those hobbies (anime, videogames, etc) as "oases" from mainstream society, which they see themselves as not identifying with, and so the backlash against more inclusivity is basically them seeing "outsiders" encroach on their paradise. Telling the girls to get out of the clubhouse, in other words.

It makes sense that in that climate, a man like Trump, who basically acts and behaves in much the same way they do, would be seen as a "messiah" or a validation to their insecurities. He is the backlash against "mainstream culture" they have been looking for, consciously or not.

It's worth noting however that the attitude I've described here transcends racial boundaries. I've met a lot of black and asian 4channers who act in much the same way and have exactly the same misogynistic outlook, and the main reason they're probably not alt-righters is the other cornerstone of Trump's campaign (racism).

edited 17th Oct '16 10:32:00 AM by Draghinazzo

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#144597: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:26:26 AM

@ moar about the "colt-right"

There may be an interesting parallel between love for escapist fantasies and inflexible worldviews/attitudes.

[nja]'ed by Draghinazzo

edited 17th Oct '16 10:36:23 AM by nervmeister

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#144598: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:30:08 AM

@Civil Disobedience/Protest: A good example of modern protesting is the kneeling during the national anthem at football games. Alternatively, if LGBT people staged sit-ins at restaurants that refuse to serve us. Spray painting a bulldozer just makes you look like a dick.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#144599: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:45:45 AM

Spray-painting a bulldozer also doesn't stop the bulldozer so it's a thoroughly useless form of protest. It angers people and doesn't accomplish anything. If you want to line up in front of the bulldozer in a human chain to prevent it from going to work, that'd be notably more effective.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#144600: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:48:47 AM

The antics of Jill Stein are not the problem. Her policy proposals are nearly as bad as Donald's, her running mate is a lunatic of a radical, and she clearly doesn't give a damn about the minorities who would be hurt by a Trump win if she was competent enough to take votes away from Clinton.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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