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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144526: Oct 17th 2016 at 7:52:10 AM

[up] Unfortunately, the idea of school choice frequently ignores the circumstances that lead to those "shitty schools" being the only choice for parents in the areas that they serve, who can't afford to send their kids away even with vouchers.

Anyway, the solution is to fix the current schools, not introduce free market elements into the system, which will inevitably lead to winners and losers even more than the current system.

Edited to add: Note the stock cop-out that implies that neither Republicans nor Democrats care about public education, which is demonstrably and provably false.

edited 17th Oct '16 8:01:14 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#144527: Oct 17th 2016 at 7:52:21 AM

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of people who don't truly understand what the role of government actually is.

"Some people have tweeted that they think Justin Trudeau would win the election as a write-in candidate, but we are not giving him up."
As a Canadian, this is hilarious to me, because IIRC Obama was a popular write-in candidate for a few elections here...

Also anyone who's going to want to move here when Trump loses is going to be forced to write out the definitions of 'irony' and 'hypocrisy' a thousand times, instead (okay so this is Joking Mode but I wish).

edited 17th Oct '16 7:52:45 AM by Pseudopartition

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144528: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:01:44 AM

[up] I wouldn't wish them on you in a million years. (Disgruntled Trump voters, that is.)

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#144529: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:02:18 AM

"If you want a comparison, how about some of these? Confederate martyrs monuments? How is this a thing?"

This might sound obvious, but t's because America isn't entirely ashamed of the Confederacy.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#144530: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:04:28 AM

There's a reason you see a lot of Confederate Flags still flying down here, to a lot of people in the south and on the right the Confederacy was a good thing and they still believe in it.

Lost Causers they tend to be called.

Oh really when?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#144531: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:08:44 AM

I've heard some people talk about the flag mostly in terms of their personal heritage, but that probably means it's a secret handshake for racism or they're just willfully ignorant about what that flag really represents.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#144532: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:12:58 AM

[up]I understand a few assholes here and there, but those memorials right there look like government property. They take down the Confie flags but not this? At least rename them as "Monuments of shame in the Civil War" or "Civil War Crimes of the Union" or something. If the Union unlwafully killed POW's, acknowledging it is taking the moral high ground, but "martyrdom" requires a high cause to die for. The Confie was the lowest cause there could be.

Edited to add: Note the stock cop-out that implies that neither Republicans nor Democrats care about public education, which is demonstrably and provably false.

Well, they've been known to have other priorities now and then:

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#144533: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:14:51 AM

Again, these people still believe in the Confederacy and what it stood for. There's a lot of them

Oh really when?
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144534: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:17:40 AM

In fairness, the order under which those "confederate martyrs" were executed would probably be classified under war crimes today (though calling them martyrs is definitely a political appellation). Whatever you think of the causes, war is hell and there were plenty of atrocities to go around.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#144535: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:20:02 AM

I call bullshit on the heritage thing when I've seen people in UNION states with confederate flags. Like Wisconsin and Minnesota. There's only one reason that someone from a Union state would wave that thing: To stick it to minorities.

edited 17th Oct '16 8:20:57 AM by speedyboris

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144536: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:22:37 AM

People move. You're probably right but I would refrain from assuming.

Relevant: Confessions of a former neo-Confederate

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#144537: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:24:35 AM

Major Marquis Warren: The Confederates took exception to my capacity for killing them. After I broke out of Wellenbeck, The South took my continued existence as a personal affront. So The ’cause put a reward on my head.
John Ruth: What’s Wellenbeck?
Sheriff Chris Mannix: You ain’t never heard of Wellenbeck prisoner of war camp, West Virginia?
John Ruth: No Reb, I ain’t never heard of it! You bust out?
Sheriff Chris Mannix: Major Marquis did more than bust out. Major Marquis had a bright idea. So bright you got to wonder why nobody never thought about it before. Tell John Ruth about your bright idea.
Major Marquis Warren: Well the whole damn place was just made out of kindling. So I burnt it down.
[Warren, Ruth and Daisy start laughing]
Sheriff Chris Mannix: There was a rookie regiment spending the overnight in that camp. Forty-seven men burnt to a crisp. Southern youth, farmer’s sons, cream of the crop.
Major Marquis Warren: And I say, “Let ’em burn”. I’m supposed to apologize for killing Johnny Reb? You joined the war to keep niggers in chains. I joined the war to kill White Southern Crackers. That means killing ’em anyway I can. Shoot ’em. Stab ’em. Drown ’em. Burn ’em. Drop a big old rock on their head. Whatever it took to put White Southern Crackers in the ground that’s what I joined the war to do, and that’s what I did.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#144538: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:25:52 AM

W Hats all this about firebombing a GOP office and free money for the Trump campaign through some sort of kickstarter?

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#144539: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:27:01 AM

What circumstances led to such schools being people's only choice?

And what causes schools in other countries to do well? What are they doing that we might be able to copy?

And why would school choice cause more "winners and losers"? Presumably, people can switch schools.

edited 17th Oct '16 8:27:46 AM by BonsaiForest

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#144540: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:27:45 AM

[up][up]A GOP office in North Carolina got firebombed and a bunch of Democrats started a fund to get it repaired.

Trump has said that the firebombing was carried out by Democrats and Hillary because he's winning.

edited 17th Oct '16 8:27:58 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#144541: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:28:26 AM

[up]And that the election is rigged. *gags*

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#144542: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:29:23 AM

[up][up][up][up]As I understand it, a GOP office in north Carolina got firebombed. Trump accused people representing Clinton/Dems, Clinton offered sympathy, and the Dems apparently did a Go Fund Me to help rebuild or something.

edited 17th Oct '16 8:30:08 AM by sgamer82

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#144543: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:33:25 AM

edited 17th Oct '16 8:33:37 AM by Xopher001

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144544: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:35:34 AM

Bonsai Forest: Those questions are better asked in the education topic in this forum. Way too complicated to cover here.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#144545: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:37:39 AM

The Anime association is weird, but the Pony one is absurd. That show is completely at odds with everything the Alt-Right stands for.

It's always boggled my mind that the fandom for such a transparently feminist show has such a belligerently anti-feminist current within it. I mean, it's not like we're talking about the gaming community, which I'm much less surprised but equally disgusted with having to watch gobble up and regurgitate conversaspiracy BS. At least the attitude somewhat matches the content in that case.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#144546: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:40:28 AM

[up]Starlight Glimmer, when she debuted as a villain, did kind of fit the "evil SJW" archetype. So I wouldn't be surprised if that made them feel validated.

edited 17th Oct '16 8:44:31 AM by nervmeister

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#144547: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:41:40 AM

What circumstances led to such schools being people's only choice?
tldr, being poor. Vouchers help offset costs of switching schools, but generally don't completely cover them. If you're working three part-time jobs to pay the rent, you don't have time to drive your kick to a school 45 minutes away or pick them up after class, and vouchers won't pay for that sort of thing. Vouchers can help middle class families switch to upper-class private schools, but they do very little for people who are actually poor.

And what causes schools in other countries to do well? What are they doing that we might be able to copy?
Literal books have been written on the subject, but the tldr version is being well-funded and having an involved community of parents. Neither of which is possible to nearly the same degree in poor schools, because they have less funding by definition and parents are less able to participate in school functions because they have less free time because they're poor.

And why would school choice cause more "winners and losers"? Presumably, people can switch schools.
Except the actually poor ones can't, not really. And voucher programs make bad schools worse by removing funding from them as students leave the school. In a bad school, people who can afford it will take their voucher money and leave, which reduces funding for the struggling school, which causes more people to bite the bullet and leave, until the only ones who are still there are the ones who can't leave.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#144548: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:43:43 AM

[up][awesome]

Oh really when?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#144549: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:44:38 AM

Was reading through the article about the former neo-confederate and found another article by an actual NFL player who utterly roasts Trump by telling us what they REALLY talk about in the locker room.

Dear Donald Trump,

Last Friday, audio leaked of you making incredibly demeaning comments about women and bragging about sexual assault. When asked to justify your statements, you claimed that this was "locker room talk," and it's just how guys speak about women.

You're wrong, and only the type of wrong an over-tanned ham hock like yourself can accomplish, plummeting past the morass of gross incivility into the abyss of depraved sociopathy.

How do I know this? Simple. I was in an NFL locker room for eight years, the very definition of the macho, alpha male environment you're so feebly trying to evoke to protect yourself, and not once did anyone approach your breathtaking depths of arrogant imbecility. Oh, sure, we had some dumb guys, and some guys I wouldn't want to hang out with on any sort of regular basis, but we never had anyone say anything as foul and demeaning as you did on that tape, and, hell, I played a couple years with a guy who later turned out to be a serial rapist. Even he never talked like that.

Now, Donald, I'm sure you're wondering just what it is we talk about in a professional locker room, if we don't spend all our time regarding 50 percent of the population as mobile fuck receptacles eagerly awaiting our tiny-handed grasp on their love lapels. I shall educate you!

We talk about our families. We talk about our significant others, our children, and our parents. We talk about our fears that if a Hitler wannabe who can't even string together a coherent statement on domestic policy becomes president, what that might mean for those of us who are married to a member of a minority community, or are a member of a minority community, or have children going to schools where hopefully nobody screams racial epithets at them or tells them to go back to [insert foreign country they couldn't identify on a map here]. [...]

We talk about women (and sex!). We talk about wives, sisters, mothers, daughters, fans, and groupies. Most guys respect women, some guys don't, but never have I heard anyone use your particularly disgusting brand of sadism that refers to women as objects and not people. Even the most debauched club-hopping party animal talks about women more civilly than you. We don't let each other talk like that about women, because it lessens our humanity, and even though we're modern-day gladiators, we still hold ourselves accountable to the idea of basic human decency.

So let me conclude with some advice for you, Donald. The next time you want to claim that something is "locker room talk," take a moment to recognize the fact that were you in an actual locker room, you would be universally reviled as a cancerous, egotistical train wreck of a disgrace that no team could possibly find the time to employ and, honestly, would never even have on their draft board to begin with.

I've been in locker rooms, Donald, and you're the type of narcissistic, pants-soiling fecal eruption that just doesn't belong. Even football players are smart enough to know that.

Basically, even in the most machismo-centred, toxic masculinity-enabling environment you can imagine, Trump's comments would still be considered grossly inappropriate and crossing a line. Even the serial rapist the author played with didn't talk like that.

edited 17th Oct '16 8:45:55 AM by Draghinazzo

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#144550: Oct 17th 2016 at 8:49:58 AM

I could totally see Trump tweeting back with something like: "Chris Kluwe is a weak loser who couldn't hack it in another NFL season. SAD! #Rigged Media"

edited 17th Oct '16 8:55:51 AM by speedyboris


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