TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#144176: Oct 14th 2016 at 7:49:54 PM

@LSBK: Recently (this hasn't always been the case), I believe we as a thread (and Fighteer as a mod) have been actively trying not to drive away dissenting opinions when we can avoid doing so. Given the choice, we would rather engage with people who disagree with us so long as they can avoid hitting the Don't Be A Dick rule.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#144177: Oct 14th 2016 at 7:57:28 PM

[up]I can't help but think that some people would be pushing that button if not for the fact that they go with the general tune here, while some people have been booted out for disagreeing too much, even if they were mostly civil.

Edit: Like, this is one of the best places I've been to with open discussion, but it still crops up here and there, I think.

edited 14th Oct '16 7:58:16 PM by LSBK

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144178: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:11:06 PM

I like the give and take of arguments, but those arguments have to remain within the boundaries of civility and respect for intellectual honesty.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#144179: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:16:34 PM

From [up][up][up][up]

"It's like unbelievable. Even a simple investigation would have shown these allegations against me in just about all cases it's nonsense, it's false,” he said.
Hasn't Trump been avoiding investigations where possible? Or am I just thinking of his resistance to releasing his tax returns?

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144180: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:20:11 PM

To the best of my knowledge, no assault or rape charge against Trump has ever gone to court; the only one I'm aware of that was ever brought was the rape charge by his ex-wife, which she later recanted.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#144181: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:28:22 PM

When it comes to certain things it's a bit hard to have a civil discussion, like say a completely uncivil candidate like Donald Trump.

Like, if this was a couple of years ago and we were talking about Mc Cain vs Obama we'd be able to have a pretty civil discussion, because both people for the most part maintained a respectable public image without generally being assholes.

But Trump spews so much misogyny and xenophobia it's hard to speak to someone supporting him without confronting them on the fact that, at best, they are saying they tolerate those horrible aspects of his character for...what reason, exactly? That's the thing, he really doesn't have anything going for him. Not saying absolutely every supporter of his is raging racist or xenophobe, since the case has been made for why rural americans support him. I'm not sure what arguments could be made to sway them because it seems they're backing him out of a manic desperation to get their way of life back on track. Things can improve for them certainly and we shouldn't just leave them to rot but we're not going back to like 60 years ago.

edited 14th Oct '16 8:33:05 PM by Draghinazzo

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#144182: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:06:09 PM

Who wanna bet those guys had "Make America Great Again" on their facebook profile?

So much for the "refugees are terrorists narrative".

The Thwarted Domestic Terrorist Attack on Somali Refugees

Federal prosecutors charged three Kansas men who were planning to detonate bombs that targeted Muslims.

Federal prosecutors charged three Kansas men Friday with domestic terrorism for planning an attack on Somali immigrants.

The three men from Liberal, Kansas, in the southwest part of the state, were targeting a nearby meatpacking town, planning to detonate bombs in an apartment complex where around 120 Somali immigrants reside.

According to the affidavit:

This is a militia group whose members support and espouse sovereign citizen, anti-government, anti-Muslim, and anti-immigrant extremist beliefs.

This comes after an eight-month investigation into the militia group called “The Crusaders.” The FBI even used an informant, who attended their meetings. Mother Jones adds:

Curtis Allen, Gavin Wright, and Patrick Stein allegedly contemplated murder, kidnapping, rape, and arson before settling on a different plan: They would obtain four vehicles, pack them with explosives, and set them off at the four corners of an apartment complex in Garden City, Kansas, that housed a mosque and 120 Somali refugees.

The three men were arrested with nearly 2,000 pounds of firearms and ammunition. They were planning to attack on November 9, one day after the election.

edited 14th Oct '16 9:07:26 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#144183: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:13:16 PM

Kind of ironic they're from Liberal, Kansas.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#144184: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:14:07 PM

A news roundup:

That anti-abortion video that was proven false last year is still being used by politicians as a weapon against scientists, either by burying them in congressional subpoenas, or to intimidate them and their companies into ceasing work.

Of course, not being able to work with fetal tissue means being unable to research Zika, cures for congenital diseases suffered by newborns, etc. The following is a quote from the written overview, but there's a long audio section I encourage everyone to listen to in the link.

    Politicians vs science 
After furor erupted over a video seeming to imply that Planned Parenthood was selling fetal tissue to research institutions, the House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce convened a select investigative panel to examine practices involving fetal tissue in late 2015. Since then, the panel, chaired by Tennessee Republican Marsha Blackburn, has issued subpoenas to more than 80 individual researchers, institutions, and companies involved in research on fetal tissue or its procurement.

The scientific community has said these subpoenas threaten researchers’ time, energy, and reputations, and that other activities by the committee—such as making public the names and addresses of researchers who use fetal tissue—could endanger those researchers’ lives. In May, an editorial in Nature Biotechnology called this panel “a witchhunt” by the anti-abortion lobby.

(Science Friday offered Representative Blackburn’s office a chance to respond to these criticisms. As of this article’s publication, we have not received a statement.)

University of Pittsburgh virologist Carolyn Coyne talks about the danger the new frenzy over fetal tissue research could have, and why this research is vital. As one example, it could help us better understand and prevent the spread of Zika virus. And Eugene Gu, whose company Ganogen has been subject to one of these subpoenas, describes the burden that congressional attention can put on scientists. In his post as a surgical resident, for instance, his research has been on hold for more than a year.

Then, we take a look at other fields that have come into the crosshairs, particularly climate science, with a scientist who knows the problem well.

The US in now officially involved in the Yemeni civil war after warships near Yemen were fired upon twice

    US makes limited strikes in Yemen 
Hours after the US struck three radar installations in Yemen in response to attempted attacks on a US Navy destroyer, Pentagon officials made clear they'll hit back again if needed and Iran moved its own warships into nearby waters.

"We want to make crystal clear if you threaten our forces, if you threaten our ships, we'll respond," Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said Thursday. He described the missile launches against the USS Mason as "a response to direct threats to our people, to our ships and we responded to that threat and we'll respond again."

Also Thursday, the Iranian navy deployed two warships into the Gulf of Aden in order to protect commercial vessels against pirates, according to the Tasnim News Agency, an Iranian news service with close ties to Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps.

"With regard to the Iranian navy activities, I'll leave it to the Iranians to describe the disposition of those ships," Cook said. "We operate in those waters all the time."

The destroyer USS Nitze blasted radar sites along the Red Sea coast with Tomahawk cruise missiles after attempted attacks on the Mason attributed to Iran-backed Houthi rebels engaged in Yemen's civil war.

Administration officials emphasized Friday that the strikes were limited, conducted in self-defense and not meant in any way to indicate that they back Saudi Arabia's war in Yemen or plan to wade deeper into the conflict.

"This was not meant to indicate support for coalition operations in Yemen at large or in the Red Sea," an administration official said Friday, "and we were not intending to be brought into the war in any fashion."

President Barack Obama echoed the point in a letter to the Senate Friday.

"These limited and proportionate strikes were conducted to protect our personnel and our ships and will preserve our freedom of navigation in this important maritime passageway," Obama wrote. "The United States stands ready to take action in self-defense, as necessary and appropriate, to address further threats."

A terrorist militia plot to kill Somali Americans was broken up

    Militia plot 
Three members of a Kansas militia group were charged Friday with plotting to bomb an apartment complex that’s home to Somali immigrants in the western Kansas meatpacking town of Garden City, a thwarted attack prosecutors say was planned for the day after the November election.

The arrests were the culmination of an eight-month FBI investigation that took agents “deep into a hidden culture of hatred and violence,” Acting U.S. Attorney Tom Beall said.

A complaint unsealed Friday charges Curtis Wayne Allen, 49; Patrick Eugene Stein, 47; and Gavin Wayne Wright, 49, with conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction. Their first court appearance is Monday.

All three men are currently in the Sedgwick County jail on one count of conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction, reports CBS affiliate KWCH.

If convicted, all three could face life in prison.

...

The men are members of a small militia group that calls itself “the Crusaders,” and whose members espouse sovereign citizen, anti-government, anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant extremist beliefs, according to the complaint.

The complaint alleges group members chose the target based on their hatred for Muslims, people of Somali descent and immigrants - and out of a desire to inspire other militia groups and “wake people up.”

The FBI began a domestic terrorism investigation of the group in February, and a confidential source attended its meetings in southwestern Kansas.

In a June meeting, Stein brought up the Orlando nightclub shooting, and proposed carrying out a similar attack against Muslim refugees in Garden City, according to the complaint.

They ultimately decided to target the apartment complex because of the number of Somalis who lived there and the fact that one of the apartments was used as a mosque. The complex houses about 120 Somali residents, Beall said.

The complaint said that Stein discussed the explosives used in the 1995 bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City by Timothy Mc Veigh.

The men, who were arrested in Liberal on Friday morning, performed surveillance of the apartment building and prepared a manifesto, Beall said.

In a profanity-laced conference call that law enforcement monitored, Stein said the only way “this country’s ever going to get turned around is it will be a bloodbath,” according to the complaint.

I hope Christian leaders will lead the way in denouncing this plot as much as they implore Muslims to denounce groups like Daesh and Al-Queada.

Win, lose, or draw, white supremacists have decided that Trump's popularity means that millions of people are open to their views, and they will continue to carry that on past November

    White Supremacists 
Throughout Donald Trump’s candidacy, there’s been a heated debate about whether support for his campaign is about economic anxiety or racism. But if you ask people who identify as white nationalists and white supremacists what Trump’s campaign is about, there’s no mincing words: It’s totally about racism.

A new report by Mother Jones takes a look at the far right’s role in the 2016 election, documenting how outright racists, white supremacists, and white nationalists have discussed and received Trump’s candidacy. Generally, these people seem to describe Trump in glowing terms, Mother Jones found:

Trump "may be the last hope for a president who would be good for white people," remarked Jared Taylor, who runs a white nationalist website called American Renaissance and once founded a think tank dedicated to "scientifically" proving white superiority. Taylor told us that Trump was the first presidential candidate from a major party ever to earn his support because Trump "is talking about policies that would slow the dispossession of whites. That is something that is very important to me and to all racially conscious white people."

Trump fever quickly spread: Other extremists new to presidential politics openly endorsed Trump, including Don Black, a former grand dragon of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and founder of the neo-Nazi site Stormfront; Rocky Suhayda, chair of the American Nazi Party; and Rachel Pendergraft, a national organizer for the Knights Party, the successor to David Duke's Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Richard Spencer, an emerging leader among a new generation of white nationalists known as the "alt right," declared that Trump "loves white people." As Sarah Posner and David Neiwert explained at Mother Jones, to these Trump backers, what the media has largely treated as gaffes — Trump retweeting white nationalists, Trump describing Mexican immigrants as “rapists” and criminals — are real signals approving of their racist causes. One white supremacist wrote, “Our Glorious Leader and ULTIMATE SAVIOR has gone full-wink-wink-wink to his most aggressive supporters.”

This type of messaging from Trump, Mother Jones found, has apparently made white nationalists much more confident. For them, Trump has begun to soften the greater public to racist messages.

“The success of the Trump campaign just proves that our views resonate with millions,” said Rachel Pendergraft, a national organizer for the Knights Party, which succeeded David Duke’s Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. “They may not be ready for the Ku Klux Klan yet, but as anti-white hatred escalates, they will.”

And they’re going to keep pushing their same racist messages after the election:

Many white nationalists and their fellow travelers have been saying they are poised to build on Trump's presidential campaign. Pendergraft and Taylor each told us that win or lose, Trump's run has brought into view a tremendous dissatisfaction among white Americans. "Those feelings will not go away," Taylor said. He envisions alt-right candidates for school board, city council, and mayor. "I feel my job will be done when at the PTA meeting a woman gets up and says, 'Well of course there aren't as many blacks in the AP courses, because they just do not have the same average IQ,' and nobody objects."

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144185: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:42:03 PM

@That last story: What absolute garbage. I'm ashamed to share a skin colour with those people, and proud that I share nothing else.

edited 14th Oct '16 9:44:02 PM by Gilphon

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#144186: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:43:04 PM

[up] It makes me glad I wasn't born in America, though we do unfortunately have some groups like those in Europe too...

edited 14th Oct '16 9:43:23 PM by Bat178

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144187: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:45:25 PM

Honestly, I'm most concerned about the Yemen incident, which I posted about a few pages ago. That could blow up into another "war", and given that Iran is siding with the rebels, it'd be a huge setback to our peacemaking considering the recent nuclear treaty.

edited 14th Oct '16 9:45:41 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#144188: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:47:00 PM

[up][up]Some, seems to be an understatement, it really doesn't come off as an area for you to claim superiority.

[up][up][up][up]It's kind of amazing in a depressing way that so many white supremacist and other assorted ilk latching onto him hasn't been made more apparent in the media.

edited 14th Oct '16 9:47:32 PM by LSBK

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#144189: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:48:02 PM

Like, if what they fear comes to pass, and hatred against whites does become a serious problem, it'll be because of people like them, not because of people who apologize for and try to make amends for the sins of our past and present. Because they make it seem like we deserve to be hated.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#144190: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:50:23 PM

But Trump spews so much misogyny and xenophobia it's hard to speak to someone supporting him without confronting them on the fact that, at best, they are saying they tolerate those horrible aspects of his character for...what reason, exactly?

Main reason I've heard is the Supreme Court: the next President will appoint at least two (quite possibly more) Justices to the Supreme Court, and with it currently split evenly between liberal and conservatice Justices, they'll be able to radically alter the ideological balance of the Court for years, possibly decades to come.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144191: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:51:46 PM

Frankly, so much of what I hear from people around me is Hillary hatred... it's so depressing because it's impossible to persuade them that they're getting the wrong message. They don't like her and there's no changing their minds.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#144192: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:57:26 PM

It's kind of amazing in a depressing way that so many white supremacist and other assorted ilk latching onto him hasn't been made more apparent in the media.

That might have disrupted the "balance" the media was supposedly trying to maintain, where they tried to pretend Trump wasn't somehow completely unqualified to be president from every conceivable angle and Hillary wasn't the default choice for anyone who cared about having someone who'd understand how to properly govern.

A lot of people support racism, but don't actually realize they are supporting it. Having the media hammer in the white supremacists' approval of him would have been very eye-opening for a lot of people.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#144194: Oct 14th 2016 at 10:24:38 PM

My household is fairly united in our dislike of Trump, so we don't really have any fights. Neither of my parents are exactly fans of Hillary, but they believe that she is definitely qualified, and would certainly be better than Trump.

Now, my sister knows very little about politics, but she definitely thought Trump was pretty damn scary. That said, she also wasn't fond of Hillary, so in the end she just picked a third party candidate - which just so happened to be Jill Stein; apparently, she liked the idea of being on clean energy by 2030. I don't think she did much research, to be honest.

Oh well.

edited 14th Oct '16 10:25:12 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#144195: Oct 14th 2016 at 10:26:40 PM

Feel free to laugh long and hard at your sister.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#144196: Oct 14th 2016 at 10:28:28 PM

Everyone in my family supports Hillary to some extent or another, except for my father, who is a diehard Trump supporter.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#144197: Oct 14th 2016 at 10:29:22 PM

[up][up] No.

That was not an invitation to mock her.

She's 3 years younger than me, this is her first time she's been old enough to vote in an election, and I haven't seen her for awhile, since she's been at college. I'm not going to hold it against her.

[up] Oh my. That can't be pleasant.

edited 14th Oct '16 10:29:45 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#144198: Oct 14th 2016 at 10:29:37 PM

And my mother is unfortunately a Trump supporter.

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#144199: Oct 14th 2016 at 10:29:54 PM

I mean, I would absolutely love it if we were on clean energy by 2030, but Stein's platform is a bit short on the realism.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#144200: Oct 14th 2016 at 10:39:48 PM

I'm not an american and I think I'm the only person in our family following the election particularly closely, but I shudder to think at the nonsense my mother and father might buy into if they were.

Both my mother and father have a pretty risible disdain of "the government" and have very "fuck you, got mine" outlook on life. I think both would despise Trump but buy into the rhetoric of "both are equally bad", much to my irritation. Suffice to say I'm not looking forward to the day of our own elections and potentially hearing what either of them might say on the subject, I groan every time I hear either of them talking about politics as it is.

My brother has stated that he dislikes Hillary, but would vote for her against Trump.

edited 14th Oct '16 10:40:28 PM by Draghinazzo


Total posts: 417,856
Top