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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#144026: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:48:43 AM

[up][up] Okay, the hyper was perhaps an exaggeration, but we're already quite militaristic.

[up] In the short term yes, long term infrastructure, education, and research are preferable to the greatest extent possible.

edited 14th Oct '16 8:50:48 AM by CaptainCapsase

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#144027: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:49:43 AM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144028: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:49:51 AM

[up][up]Nah, not really. We have a military fetish — a raging hard-on — in certain parts of the social landscape, but U.S. society as a whole is pacifistic to a degree unprecedented in our nation's history, with the proportion of citizens who have served at an all-time low, I believe.

edited 14th Oct '16 8:50:23 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#144029: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:51:18 AM

You do realise that carrier warfare is effectively the answer to the defense conundrum presented in the Art of War? It's a good book on the general idea of irregular strategy, but ignoring its historical context is a mistake.

You just need to translate it a bit. Carriers have a much larger force projection range than a squad of archers, but it's still not infinite. There is still a limit to how much they can cover, and if you spread them too thin you're screwed. It's just that you can spread them much farther before you have to worry about that.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#144030: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:51:24 AM

[up][up] That's what I'm talking about.

edited 14th Oct '16 8:51:50 AM by CaptainCapsase

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#144031: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:51:57 AM

@ Fighteer:

The choice of whether to fund science, military, infrastructure, healthcare, or what have you is basically a political one, determined by your priorities and needs as a society.

And of course, all of those can have a military justification. Weren't the Interstates built using a military justification?

Keep Rolling On
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#144032: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:52:11 AM

Besides, plenty of military funding goes to research and that eventually goes to the civilian market.

Even the bloody internet began because ARPA, now DARPA, required a communication network designed to survive a nuclear exchange.

You just need to translate it a bit. Carriers have a much larger force projection range than a squad of archers, but it's still not infinite. There is still a limit to how much they can cover, and if you spread them too thin you're screwed. It's just that you can spread them much farther before you have to worry about that.

Carriers and carrier battle groups don't need to be stretched thin or cover a lot of ground...or sea. They are mobile, so instead of covering specific spots statically they can be moved around to where they are needed.

Which is the difference between building a military base near a hot spot or just sending a CBG where the conflict spots show up. That is why whenever a CBG showing up somewhere is a big deal, as the US doesn't need to build or make a lasting presence in order to alter the military power landscape of the region, they just need to show up when needed and leave they they are no longer needed.

edited 14th Oct '16 8:56:45 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#144033: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:53:06 AM

[up][up] Yes, but the issue we are currently facing is not technological; to maintain the current American hegemony, we need more troops and more equipment for those troops.

That means pulling people who would otherwise be active in other parts of the economy, which weakens those sectors in favor of the military.

edited 14th Oct '16 8:59:39 AM by CaptainCapsase

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#144034: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:53:43 AM

[up][up][up]Eisenhower got the idea from a military experience but I don't know if that's how he sold it to the public. I think it was designed to speed up traffic across the country.

edited 14th Oct '16 8:54:13 AM by Kostya

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#144035: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:56:19 AM

[up]The Wiki article on the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 suggests Eisenhower did invoke military utility in his selling of the projecting to the public.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144036: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:58:18 AM

Yes, but the issue we are currently facing is not technological; to maintain the current American hegemony, we need more troops and more equipment for those troops.

And? You should call yourself Captain Obvious.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#144037: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:58:40 AM

We've certainly gotten more pacifistic. Certain expressions of Military culture,like flying the flag or letting your children play army will earn you side ways glances or outright banishment from polite society these days. The whole hollow support the troops thing is just a meaningless gesture most people repeat because everyone else does it. The right doesn't really give a dam about them as people, and the left secretly thinks their all ether deluded idiots, racists, or psychopaths. And everyone who returns form war is automatically considered to be suffering from PTSD, and treated like a ticking time bomb.

edited 14th Oct '16 8:58:51 AM by JackOLantern1337

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#144038: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:59:48 AM

Jack, your hyperbole is showing again.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#144039: Oct 14th 2016 at 8:59:53 AM

[up][up] Dude, you should know better than to spew unsupported, hyperbolic statements like that in this forum.

edited 14th Oct '16 9:00:02 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#144040: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:01:18 AM

[up][up][up][up] I was countering a point exholting the benefits of military research. Which are decent enough when it comes to engineering at the costs of ignoring the basic sciences.

edited 14th Oct '16 9:01:43 AM by CaptainCapsase

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#144041: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:02:08 AM

re: "American Empire" - In the traditional definition of empire, how much extra-territorial land do we actually still hold? Just some islands in the Caribbean and Pacific? Do military bases held by treaty in other nations count?

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#144042: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:03:06 AM

Yes, but the issue we are currently facing is not technological; to maintain the current American hegemony, we need more troops and more equipment for those troops.

Not necessarily, while the US has been having problems with refreshing their military forces with more personnel, the US since the late 70's has focused on a higher technological edge in order to overcome disadvantages. Which translate in better equipped and trained troops over sheer numbers alone.

There isn't a need to expand the number of active personnel, just to make sure there isn't a sharp drop in available able bodied manpower.

[down]Not more, just better.

edited 14th Oct '16 9:06:36 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#144043: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:03:23 AM

[up][up] The American sphere of influence encompasses most of the world. We lack a traditional colonial empire largely because it isn't economical anymore.

[up] I also mentioned equipping those additional soldiers, which is at most an engineering task. Military research has its upsides, but it severely neglects the basic sciences.

edited 14th Oct '16 9:07:54 AM by CaptainCapsase

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#144044: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:05:47 AM

Trump Backers Unfazed by Claim of Bad Behavior.

Dianne De Wolfe, 73, of Palm Beach Gardens said she thought the accusers were “embellishing what might have happened,” and she questioned the timing of the revelations.

“It’s baloney to come out now,” she said. “They’re opportunists. Listen, no man attacks a woman unless she’s looking like she’s asking for it.”

Okay, seriously lady, fuck you.

Oh God! Natural light!
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#144045: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:07:35 AM

[up]As it was noted, for Trump supporters that is a plus, not a minus.

Inter arma enim silent leges
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#144046: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:07:57 AM

They're Trump supporters, what do you expect?

Oh really when?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#144047: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:08:53 AM

[up] I kind of wish I could flat out ask a Trump supporter what, if anything, would be a Moral Event Horizon for Trump.

Disgusted, but not surprised
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#144048: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:09:25 AM

Something that changes the way warfare is fought is ideal. Like crazy new radio waves that can't be detected or blocked which can influence an army or its chain of command to surrender or commit suicide.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#144049: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:10:31 AM

What?

Oh really when?
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#144050: Oct 14th 2016 at 9:11:08 AM

[up][up][up]Endorsing Hillary.

[up][up]what?

edited 14th Oct '16 9:12:19 AM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges

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