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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#143826: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:04:13 AM

It does strike me that "Clinton moles is the Sanders campaign" is exactly how Sanders/her supporters would account for Sanders supporters (including Sanders himself) who went on to support Clinton.

Calls to mind something I was thinking back at the time of the DNC. I think there was always way too much emphasis on the Never Hilary protesters inside and outside of the hall in terms of Clinton needing to make efforts to win their votes (which was unlikely to be possible). As opposed to Sanders supporters who had a neutral or even positive opinion toward Clinton but preferred Sanders the first time around. Or even the number of people who had more negative opinions but didn't see her as Satan.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#143827: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:04:43 AM

[up][up][up][up] It must be noted that Wikileaks is no longer even pretending to be an objective purveyor of information, but is now expressly working to sabotage the Clinton campaign. Any "facts" they claim to have must be scrutinized accordingly.

[up][up][up] Heh. Absent the legalese, "Kiss our ass; we'll see you in court."

[up][up] In a sense, that's because, at least on the left, the Democrats' "big tent" approach has been remarkably successful. The Republican Party let its extremists take over, and now they're running their mascot for President. Could you imagine Stein vs. Trump? /shudder

[up] I liked Sanders and still do. I considered voting for him in the primary, but as the campaign matured, it became increasingly obvious that he was selling us a lot of fool's gold in terms of economic promises that lacked credible plans for getting accomplished.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:07:57 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#143828: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:05:25 AM

[up][up]I was apart of the "Initially preferred Sanders but was still fairly positive about Hilary" group.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:05:50 AM by LSBK

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#143829: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:06:15 AM

"Comments taken out of context"

Like what? Being willing to bend over backwards for Russia? Supporting a platform that will risk bringing back polio and smallpox? Supporting blatantly anti science viewpoints? Getting arrested for vandalism? Being dragged off of the property of a debate and threatening to come back?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#143830: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:08:01 AM

[up][up] Part of my family also preferred Bernie at first, but came around to Hillary.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:08:15 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#143831: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:08:03 AM

[up]We mostly discussed her vaccine position (though we did talk about his ideas on foreign policy). Basically, he thought she meant "Vaccines are real, but I get why people don't trust big corporations, so I get why they don't trust vaccines".

Which is still stupid, but, eh, I sort of understand it. It should be noted he admitted to being pretty ideological, instead of practically or pragmatically, driven with most things.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:09:56 AM by LSBK

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#143832: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:08:43 AM

[up]X6 Wait, so Sanders was a Clinton plant within the Sanders campaign? Damit, some of these people are crazy enough that they might actually think that...

[up]X5 You missed the "For us to ruin Trump's reputation he'd have to have a reputation to ruin", bit. tongue

edited 13th Oct '16 11:10:40 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#143833: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:09:26 AM

[up][up] I just can't take a Party that supports homeopathy seriously. Among other things.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:09:38 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#143834: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:10:49 AM

@primaries: I voted for Sanders, but was always willing to vote for Hillary, and fully expected her to beat him. A month or so after the primaries, I kinda realized I just like Hillary's platform more, but was caught up in Sanders' wave of popularity.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#143835: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:10:57 AM

* Nigh cult-like mentality among the far left who think "equal outcome" is the same as equal opportunity.
  • Islamic scripture promoting a repressive mentality (especially towards women) as indicated by statistics showing percentages of believers who want see opinions against it silenced.
  • Overzealous digital policing of social media and other outlets enforced by members of the more authoritarian left vying for influence.
  • Denouncing safe spaces and radical gender studies on college campuses.

  • I've seen this first hand. There's some folk a Tall Poppy Syndrome approach to equality that makes Ayn Rand sound accurate.
  • This is true. It just so happens that whether Muslims bother to listen is down to entirely cultural and pragmatic factors, barring revivalism waves. The same can be said for most traditional religions, really.
  • Experienced this first hand. Took me a lot of humility and curiosity to overcome this and get into the genuine meat of the message, but the process sucked. Not only did a lot of people, events, and works get ruined for me in the process, I found myself feeling guilty and ashamed for having been born a privileged man, and often had to deal with accusations of misoginy, ableism, shaming, and so on on the flimsiest pretext.

So, yeah, those points are fair, and they bring up genuine problems. They're just not problems I would pay the most attention to now.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
tryrar Since: Sep, 2010
#143836: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:13:09 AM

Oh for fucks sake, Trump criticized the NFL for being pansys about a little thing as a concussion, like taking a blow to the head hard enough to knock you loopy but being forced to "walk it off" is a good thing for your long-term health >_>

Story here:[1]

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#143837: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:13:17 AM

The anti-vax stuff on its own is a major dealbreaker.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#143838: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:14:41 AM

The fact that Stein would listen seriously to the people who claim that vaccines cause autism, that GMOs are poisonous, that alternative medicine is anything other than dolled up quackery, that power lines cause cancer, and so on, means she has no business being anywhere near our national science and technology apparatus.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:15:02 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#143839: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:16:00 AM

What I think bugs me most...I don't think Stein believes it. But she's pandering to the people who do. It's irresponsibility on a grand scale.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#143840: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:16:02 AM

Jill Stein is herself not an anti-vaccer, but she's willing to pander to them (since they're a big chunk of the Green Party's Appeal to Nature base), by claiming that their fears are justified since Big Pharma bad!

Which arguably makes her worse than an anti-vaccer.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:16:19 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#143841: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:19:10 AM

Also, Stein has a medical license and as pointed out by a writer I follow who used to be a nurse, implying that the anti-science people might be right when she knows better is treading on the Hippocratic Oath.

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#143842: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:20:53 AM

[up]x6 eh, not the first time Trump's tried to take on the NFL - he was the main driving force behind the old USFL's lawsuit against that league in The '80s over monopolistic practices. Which the USFL legally won and got...$3.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:21:10 AM by megarockman

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#143843: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:21:10 AM

Also, the fact that she would abrogate our treaties, cut off our global relationships, and dismantle our military make her no better than the Libertarians in terms of foreign policy.

[down] Stay classy, guys. /sigh

Edit: I can't access that link.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:32:45 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#143845: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:47:24 AM

So Trump's latest speech apparently had some anti-Semitic undertones.

Guess that what happens when one of your top aides, Bannon, is a raging anti-Semite.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#143846: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:54:36 AM

Just about to post that. Saw Jamelle Bouie tweeting about it. In his speech, Trump accused Clinton of secretly meeting with "International Banks" and plotting to overthrow American sovereignty.

Reminds me of something similar from one of Trump's evangelical supporters (trying to find it) where in defending Trump from blowback on his sexual assault comments, and compared him to Jesus, saying that Jesus was crucified by the media of his day. And think Bannon himself has posted about an "international media" conspiracy against Trump.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:58:39 AM by Hodor2

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#143847: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:56:12 AM

[up] The ironic thing is that he has stronger Jewish ties than HRC. His daughter and son-in-law are Orthodox Jews. HRC and her whole family are Methodists.

Also, he's more beholden to foreign banks than HRC since American banks don't give him credit anymore.

Classic psychological projection.

edited 13th Oct '16 11:57:49 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#143848: Oct 13th 2016 at 11:58:41 AM

I think that was a reference to her leaked speeches; one was to a bank in Brazil and one contained a line about dreaming of open borders and a global market without barriers (not something I actually believe would be a bad thing but we both know it's still a pie in the sky dream) and I don't remember whether they were the same speech or not.

It may also have been a dogwhistle phrasing but it may also be coincidental and I'm not eager to hunt down the full text to find out.

edited 13th Oct '16 12:05:19 PM by Elle

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#143850: Oct 13th 2016 at 12:05:01 PM

Yes. Here's a link to the relevant portion of the transcript. So yeah, it's a combination of phrasing the "Sanders style" critiaue of Clinton's corporate ties in a way that winks as anti-antisemitism- no surprise, given that Trump is getting his commentary from Bannon and Assange.

And yeah, the comment on sovereignty sounds like a reference to Clinton's open borders comment- but basically how a right wing militia nut would interpret said comment.

Edit- What's particularly scary is that Trump was reading a written down speech so this wasn't insane extemporaneous Trump; it's insane polished Trump.

edited 13th Oct '16 12:10:46 PM by Hodor2


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