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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#143226: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:51:51 AM

I love how everyone on the right from Fox to Morning Joe wants to bring up Bill Clinton in an effort to take away from Trump's comments about women. Is Bill a cheating sleaze? Sure. Did he ever brag about how women can't refuse him when he grabs them by the genetalia? No. Bill's never been convicted of anything, and has never admitted to anything other than being a cheat. Trump admitted on tape to sexual assault. The two things are not comparable in the least.

As for "Hillary insulted the women Bill slept with," I hate the fact that anybody tries to make that a thing. A wife namecalling the women her husband cheated with? The horror. Because that's never happened before in the history of the nation. Every time that comes up, I can't help but wonder, if it was a husband calling his wife's boyfriend an asshole would we be having this conversation? For that matter, if it was any other woman namecalling her husband's girlfriend would we be having this conversation? If she sent the Secret Service after them or something equally over the top, that'd be a conversation. Insulting them in a private conversation with a friend? That's not news.

edited 11th Oct '16 9:54:12 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#143227: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:52:05 AM

I'm going to say this, even if Trump is going into a Villainous Breakdown, we need to keep up the campaign against him, in order to make sure he loses this election.

People were so sure about the Brexit not happening or Colombia making a peace deal with their rebels, but they still ended up failing.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#143228: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:52:39 AM

This is the daftest thing I've read all day, and I've been reading stories about Trump, otherwise.

[up]Brexit was a close vote in a country teeming with Euroscepticism; it's not the same thing as here, where Trump has earned the hatred of everyone he needs in order to win. By all means, the Dems need to keep up the heat, but it's important not to become too paranoid.

edited 11th Oct '16 9:54:46 AM by CrimsonZephyr

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#143229: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:53:32 AM

@nervmeister: Well, I think we tend to worry, and it's what's in the news more often.

If you want to discuss that, then I'm sure we can, though providing a link or two might help facilitate such a discussion.

edited 11th Oct '16 9:53:59 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143230: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:53:37 AM

Basically: a willingness to face the consequences of your actions is part and parcel of making a noble stand against an unjust law. We don't have laws for protecting lawbreakers in case they're secretly right.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#143231: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:53:51 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] The sick thing is that, if Hillary had rejected Bill and divorced him or otherwise turned on him, she'd be getting accused right now of being a faithless wife.

Edit: My secondary concern right now is that the tilting of votes in favor of Democrats this election won't last; that the anti-Trump backlash will wear off and things will revert to form with Democratic complacency costing them the midterms in 2018.

edited 11th Oct '16 9:57:20 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#143232: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:54:29 AM

There were concerns about the Columbia deal from the start, and the Leave campaign was not in such a bad position as Trump is now.

That said, you are absolutely right in that the Dems can't afford to get complacent.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#143233: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:57:14 AM

[up][up] The GOP hates Hillary. There is literally nothing she could do that they would not try to spin into a real life Moral Event Horizon.

Edit:

I also agree that we can't be complacent. Every Democrat should vote as if the polls were neck in neck.

edited 11th Oct '16 9:59:12 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#143234: Oct 11th 2016 at 9:58:56 AM

Exactly. I mean seriously, she remarked privately to a friend that she thought the woman was "a loony toon?" We're upset about this? By the standards of "comments made by wronged wives" that's remarkably generous. This is not news. Hell, it wouldn't be news if she'd called her every name in the book and expressed the wish for her to be run over by a cement mixer. Because those are the things people who have been cheated on say in those situations.

My brother's ex-girlfriend cheated on him. As you can imagine, he said some less than charitable things about the guy she was cheating with. I, for my part, said some even less charitable things about her. I may, in fact, have told my brother that she was a worthless bitch and that I no longer cared if she got hit by a bus. And somehow, in the minds of some people, those comments, made to my brother in a moment of anger about the girl who'd just put him through the emotional wringer, are supposed to disqualify either of us from ever holding public office? Like hell.

Saying nasty things in private about people who have hurt you is not a disqualifying action. Saying them in public might be. Actually trying to run them over (be it with cement mixer or bus) certainly would be. But stuff said in private about people who've hurt you? Who gives a good goddamn?

edited 11th Oct '16 10:03:11 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#143235: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:04:14 AM

...I'll be honest, I'm a little perturbed by this, because the accusations that were made against Bill Clinton in this case weren't that he cheated on his wife, but that he had committed sexual assault and rape.

If that is indeed the case, wouldn't that make Hillary's comments seem...well, worse?

Oh God! Natural light!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#143236: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:06:11 AM

If that is indeed the case, wouldn't that make Hillary's comments seem...well, worse?

Given that she presumably believed Bill was innocent, no.

Seriously, you want to take the general public to task over our refusal, as a culture, to believe that alleged rape victims are telling the truth, that's fine. You want to take the wives of men who've just been accused to task for what they say in private? Develop some empathy.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#143237: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:09:11 AM

Right, my apologies, that was insensitive of me.

I suppose what was on my mind right then was the allegations by Bill's rape accuser that Hillary had made thinly veiled threats against her (or something along those lines).

Oh God! Natural light!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#143238: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:10:13 AM

NVM.

edited 11th Oct '16 10:10:46 AM by LSBK

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#143239: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:14:30 AM

There are allegations that it went beyond name calling, namely hiring a private investigator to dig into their lives and paint the worst possible picture of them. They are unproven/unproovable but don't come from sources that can be dismissed out of hand.

All that was said about her believing Bill (and believing that it was a right-wing conspiracy) still applies but would rank among the more troubling of things she's done if true.

edited 11th Oct '16 10:15:35 AM by Elle

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#143240: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:23:42 AM

[up] Yes, those were essentially my concerns, thank you.

Anyway, I don't know if this has already been posted, but it seems that Trump's FDA plan is concerning, to say the least.

Oh God! Natural light!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#143241: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:30:52 AM

[up][up] That said, there is an actual right-wing conspiracy against HRC. It's called the GOP.

[up] Wanna bet that the main reason Trump wants to cut the FDA is petty payback for the FDA frequently pointing out that his restaurants fail their health inspections?

edited 11th Oct '16 10:32:02 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#143242: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:33:44 AM

John Scalzi wrote a blog post about how the GOP set itself up for a candidate like Trump in recent decades.

Is it true that Trump's restaurants fail health inspections? That wouldn't surprise me at all.

edited 11th Oct '16 10:34:42 AM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#143243: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:34:04 AM

No bet. It's Trump. Everything he does is to satisfy a petty grudge. Hell, one of his spokespeople even outright stated that this entire Presidential campaign is an attempt at getting revenge on Obama for cracking jokes about him.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#143244: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:42:56 AM

All that was said about her believing Bill (and believing that it was a right-wing conspiracy) still applies but would rank among the more troubling of things she's done if true.

I have a lot of trouble criticizing someone for what they do in an attempt to clear a loved one's name. Again, I think we can criticize rape culture and societal attitudes towards sexual assault without condemning the wives (and parents and children and siblings) who don't believe that their loved one is guilty of it (sidenote: I am not, of course, referring to people like the parents of the Standford rapist who know exactly what he did and want to pretend it's not a crime). If I were to be arrested for a crime tomorrow I can pretty much guarantee you that, no matter what the crime was, be it sexual assault or knocking over a bank, that my fiancee and my parents would believe I was innocent and would, barring a confession, continue to believe that and do everything they could to prove it. That's just how people are wired.

This perhaps goes double for Hillary Clinton who has, over the course of her life, seen her husband been accused of every crime in the book from rape to murder to dealing cocaine. Of course she didn't believe his accuser, and of course she did everything she could to discredit the accusations. After seeing all the other bogus charges the right-wing had leveled at her husband—and at herself—why do people suddenly expect her to believe these ones and to take the charges lying down? Even if Bill's accuser is telling the complete and unvarnished truth, the hard right cried wolf so many times that it's impossible for me to blame Hillary for thinking this was just another manufactured scandal. Let's suppose she did hire a PI. What do you suppose she was looking for? The usual "this woman gets around and therefore must have consented" BS? Or evidence that she was on the GOP payroll?

edited 11th Oct '16 10:52:40 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#143245: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:43:23 AM

Basically: a willingness to face the consequences of your actions is part and parcel of making a noble stand against an unjust law.
This. One of the big parts of civil disobedience is deliberately and consciously breaking what you believe to be an unjust law and then accepting the consequences of doing that. You don't get to claim the moral high ground while simultaneously attempting to avoid taking responsibility for your actions.

edited 11th Oct '16 10:43:45 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#143246: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:44:59 AM

[up][up][up]Well, it's not the most high-minded reason to run for office, true. But on a human level, it's understandable. In fact, sometimes spite is the greatest motivator of all to do something with your life (though it doesn't guarantee you'll be competent at it).

edited 11th Oct '16 10:46:33 AM by nervmeister

LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#143247: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:48:42 AM

The thing that really strikes me is how insanely egomaniacal Trump is.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#143248: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:52:07 AM

[up]Narcissistic personality disorder does exist, but I'm no doctor, so I wont say for sure if Trump has it.

edited 11th Oct '16 10:52:27 AM by nervmeister

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#143249: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:53:31 AM

I'm not a doctor either, yet I feel entirely comfortable saying he has it.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#143250: Oct 11th 2016 at 10:53:50 AM

Doctors could probably write columns if they were allowed to examine Trump in detail.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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