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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#142302: Oct 7th 2016 at 10:32:42 PM

Because even they are disgusted by him?

Political views aside he's a complete and utter buffoon with no sense of dignity, manners or respect for anyone or anything.

I'm fairly sure that this is not what they wanted.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#142303: Oct 7th 2016 at 10:35:25 PM

Does the GOP really care about what's right? Or do they just not want this clown running the circus?

Do not obey in advance.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#142304: Oct 7th 2016 at 10:36:40 PM

[up]Probably depends which Republican you ask.

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#142305: Oct 7th 2016 at 10:47:57 PM

Trump still has some support from: career politicians who need trumps base to make it through this election, the pro-lifers who will do anything to get control of the SC and the folks who actually like him. Pretty much everyone else is working to either distance themselves or actively undermine him.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#142306: Oct 7th 2016 at 10:48:41 PM

The GOP never wanted Trump as their candidate in the first place, and now that he's running, he's become pure poison to anyone whose constituents aren't Grade A Lunatic. A lot of GOP types have been disassociating themselves from him in the hopes that he won't damage their personal brand, and that the damage he does to the GOP as a whole can be fixed.

For example, 538 is currently predicting a 50/50 Senate split with a Democratic tiebreaker because Trump is poisoning Senate candidates who really should be able to hold their ground (Pat Toomey, for example, is looking like he might lose).

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#142308: Oct 8th 2016 at 12:53:02 AM

[up][up]

Hmm, I thought Tammy Duckworth was already a senator? EDIT: Nvm, she was a representative and now she's running for Senate.

edited 8th Oct '16 12:54:36 AM by AlleyOop

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#142309: Oct 8th 2016 at 1:48:51 AM

The political memes on Imgur are absolutely delicious right now.

Do not obey in advance.
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#142310: Oct 8th 2016 at 2:20:18 AM

I'm happy I was sleeping when the Trumpodrone #25365 decided to pay a visit, I could only deduce what he said from the replies, but it probably was the kind of thing that makes my blood boil.

Still, how bad is this last "episode" going to be for Trump? It is supposed to turn undecided voters towards Hillary? Because I am pretty sure his fans will just shrug it off, "men talk" style.

Now I'm waiting for Next.POTUS.S02E09.The.Even.Madder.Debate.HDTV.x264-LOL.mkv

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#142311: Oct 8th 2016 at 2:21:57 AM

[up]Is that a Mr. Robot reference?

I hope it turns undecideds towards Hillary. Trump can not win.

Heh, I feel like a time traveler desperately relaying a message to someone in the past. tongue

edited 8th Oct '16 2:48:59 AM by BearyScary

Do not obey in advance.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#142312: Oct 8th 2016 at 3:14:07 AM

[up][up]The Nimble America hire Trumpelina had a real hard on for Mexico. And Mexican drug smugglers. While wanting weed legalised.

Not the cause of Three Percenters.

So people are claiming that what happened 10 years ago didn't count, while insisting that Hillary smearing people 20 years ago counts. Why the hell do I bother with getting an education if these folks get decently paying jobs and I don't?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#142313: Oct 8th 2016 at 3:48:06 AM

[up][up] No, not voluntarily at least. But this campaign does look like a TV show considering the amount of cliffhangers and plot turns it had - Khizr Khan, Hillary fainting, the first debate, last night's comments, the next debate, and all that just after the primaries.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#142314: Oct 8th 2016 at 4:59:37 AM

[up][up]Why did I become an engineer instead of working in finance? When an engineer fucks up, they go right to fucking jail. When a banker fucks up, they get an epic severance package.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#142315: Oct 8th 2016 at 5:13:40 AM

The Republicans only have themselves to blame

In 1997, a makeup artist and former business associate named Jill Harth alleged that Trump had groped her on multiple occasions. In her suit, which you can read here, Harth described one of these advances as “attempted rape.” As the Guardian reported in July, that suit was dropped after Trump settled a separate business lawsuit with Harth’s partner George Houraney.

Harth, Houraney, and Trump were working on a pin-up competition together when Trump allegedly began making sexual advances. The project began in December 1992. According to Harth, in January 1993, Trump's behavior escalated. In her 1997 deposition, written about recently in the New York Times, Harth testified that at a business dinner Trump “name-dropped throughout that [meal], when he wasn’t groping me under the table.”

Then, the lawsuit alleges, Trump tried to get Harth into his daughter’s bedroom alone. When he was with Harth in Ivanka’s bedroom, Trump allegedly groped her again.

Two weeks later, the alleged assault escalated to “attempted rape”

The Guardian’s Lucia Graves reported that Harth described this episode in her deposition this way: "It's a good thing I had pants on, that's all I can say." Trump allegedly persisted and Harth became physically ill

Trump has denied the allegations, and prior to the lawsuit he attempted to depict Harth as wanting to sleep with him. In 1996, he was quoted in the National Enquirer as saying that Harth “was trying to get into my pants.”

A similar quote appeared in a pornographic magazine, and Trump also allegedly bragged about having sex with Harth outside of the courthouse in December and March 1997

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#142316: Oct 8th 2016 at 5:44:20 AM

The BBC: US election: Could Republicans still dump Donald Trump?

For all Republicans out there longing to boot Donald Trump off the presidential ticket even at this late stage, there are four key words.

Death, declination, or otherwise.

The Republican National Committee (RNC) sets out in its Rule 9 the terms for "filling vacancies in nominations".

It reads: "The Republican National Committee is hereby authorized and empowered to fill any and all vacancies which may occur by reason of death, declination, or otherwise of the Republican candidate for President of the United States."

In other words, not really. It is simply too late.

Keep Rolling On
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#142317: Oct 8th 2016 at 5:49:39 AM

"Otherwise" is a pretty compelling word, imo.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#142318: Oct 8th 2016 at 6:13:07 AM

And in other news, the author of the Drudge Report has drawn ire for trying to claim that the government's lying about Hurricane Matthew's intensity as a False Flag Operation regarding global warming.

Edit - apparently the "transcript" was from an Onion-like source 5 days before the Wikileaks emails were pushed out. Here's a write-up regarding the speeches from the NY Times.

[down]

Whether it was said at all, and I've got to say I'm surprised at your casual condemnation of people that are justifiably frustrated with a system they see as not acting in their interests - we've criticized the Republican base for voting against their interests before, so why criticize the Democratic base for wanting to vote for their interests? Hell, the real email leak even has Clinton saying this:

When Mrs. Clinton describes herself as “far removed” from average Americans and their finances, she had just finished describing her growing appreciation for how “anxiety and even anger in the country over the feeling that the game is rigged.” And she reminds the audience that her father “loved to complain about big business and big government.”

edited 8th Oct '16 6:25:13 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#142319: Oct 8th 2016 at 6:16:45 AM

[up] If what is true, that it was said, or that the statement itself is accurate? Because the latter is definitely the case: the left is also breeding a class of low-fact, reactionary types that distinguish themselves from the alt-right mainly by their choice of issues. They aren't as influential as Trump supporters — witness the fact that Clinton was nominated — but many of them fell into the "Bernie Bros" camp and rejected him when he decided to endorse her.

edited 8th Oct '16 6:18:03 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#142320: Oct 8th 2016 at 7:00:56 AM

Also, some interesting stuff from the Podesta emails. Actual link included because I'm nice like that.

*CLINTON IS MORE FAVORABLE TO CANADIAN HEALTH CARE AND SINGLE PAYER*

  • Clinton Said Single-Payer Health Care Systems “Can Get Costs Down,” And “Is As Good Or Better On Primary Care,” But “They Do Impose Things Like Waiting Times.” *“If you look at countries that are comparable, like Switzerland or Germany, for example, they have mixed systems. They don't have just a single-payer system, but they have very clear controls over budgeting and accountability. If you look at the single-payer systems, like Scandinavia, Canada, and elsewhere, they can get costs down because, you know, although their care, according to statistics, overall is as good or better on primary care, in particular, they do impose things like waiting times, you know. It takes longer to get like a hip replacement than it might take here.” [Hillary Clinton remarks to ECGR Grand Rapids, 6/17/13]

  • Clinton Cited President Johnson’s Success In Establishing Medicare And Medicaid And Said She Wanted To See The U.S. Have Universal Health Care Like In Canada.* “You know, on healthcare we are the prisoner of our past. The way we got to develop any kind of medical insurance program was during World War II when companies facing shortages of workers began to offer healthcare benefits as an inducement for employment. So from the early 1940s healthcare was seen as a privilege connected to employment. And after the war when soldiers came back and went back into the market there was a lot of competition, because the economy was so heated up. So that model continued. And then of course our large labor unions bargained for healthcare with the employers that their members worked for. So from the early 1940s until the early 1960s we did not have any Medicare, or our program for the poor called Medicaid until President Johnson was able to get both passed in 1965. So the employer model continued as the primary means by which working people got health insurance. People over 65 were eligible for Medicare. Medicaid, which was a partnership, a funding partnership between the federal government and state governments, provided some, but by no means all poor people with access to healthcare. So what we've been struggling with certainly Harry Truman, then Johnson was successful on Medicare and Medicaid, but didn't touch the employer based system, then actually Richard Nixon made a proposal that didn't go anywhere, but was quite far reaching. Then with my husband's administration we worked very hard to come up with a system, but we were very much constricted by the political realities that if you had your insurance from your employer you were reluctant to try anything else. And so we were trying to build a universal system around the employer-based system. And indeed now with President Obama's legislative success in getting the Affordable Care Act passed that is what we've done. We still have primarily an employer-based system, but we now have people able to get subsidized insurance. So we have health insurance companies playing a major role in the provision of healthcare, both to the employed whose employers provide health insurance, and to those who are working but on their own are not able to afford it and their employers either don't provide it, or don't provide it at an affordable price. We are still struggling. We've made a lot of progress. Ten million Americans now have insurance who didn't have it before the Affordable Care Act, and that is a great step forward. (Applause.) And what we're going to have to continue to do is monitor what the costs are and watch closely to see whether employers drop more people from insurance so that they go into what we call the health exchange system. So we're really just at the beginning. But we do have Medicare for people over 65. And you couldn't, I don't think, take it away if you tried, because people are very satisfied with it, but we also have a lot of political and financial resistance to expanding that system to more people. So we're in a learning period as we move forward with the implementation of the Affordable Care Act. And I'm hoping that whatever the shortfalls or the glitches have been, which in a big piece of legislation you're going to have, those will be remedied and we can really take a hard look at what's succeeding, fix what isn't, and keep moving forward to get to affordable universal healthcare coverage like you have here in Canada. [Clinton Speech For tinePublic – Saskatoon, CA, 1/21/15]

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#142321: Oct 8th 2016 at 7:31:37 AM

Now that you mention it... Can someone explain to me what is the difference between "single-payer" and "multi-payer" when it comes to healthcare systems, and why is it that the USA seems to have a phobia about the former?

edited 8th Oct '16 7:31:49 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#142322: Oct 8th 2016 at 7:44:32 AM

[up] To grossly oversimplify it, single-payer is public health insurance (MOAR taxes), while multi-payer is private health insurance (price gouging).

To a lot of Americans "Single-payer" is socialism. And socialism in the minds of Americans, is a step away from Communism. And That's Terrible

edited 8th Oct '16 7:48:06 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#142323: Oct 8th 2016 at 8:02:27 AM

So I missed another Trump supporter. Fairly unhinged sounding. I'm more surprised he wasn't banned the moment he said he supported Trump.

Incidentally, judging by responses, he made the observation that the left is becoming increasingly authoritarian. I'd say that's 100% correct unfortunately. It hasn't become blatantly obvious in circles of power yet like it has with the right, but I'm growing increasingly convinced that it's only a matter of time before the left shifts to meet them.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#142324: Oct 8th 2016 at 8:06:40 AM

[up][up]... which is ironic, considering all the fuss that American advocates of laissez-faire capitalism (e.g. Ayn Rand and like-minded Objectivists) raise about cricitism that calls it a step away from outright plutocracy.

edited 8th Oct '16 8:06:51 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Julep Since: Jul, 2010
#142325: Oct 8th 2016 at 8:10:29 AM

[up][up] Please expand, because I really don't see where that authoritarian left comes from, whether it is in the US or anywhere else.


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