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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#141801: Oct 5th 2016 at 9:05:20 AM

I'm not sure if Kaine should have been focusing fire on Pence, people vote for the top of the ticket so that's where one should attack.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#141802: Oct 5th 2016 at 9:25:28 AM

We'll have to see. This offers Trump a potential reset, but only if he doesn't make a fool of himself in the second debate. If he can maintain the pseudo-stately demeanor he started the first debate with, I'd expect the race to tighten again, though that in and of itself is unlikely, and still won't put him in a position to win without a good third debate, no additional meltdowns, and unfavorable news cycles for Clinton in Novemeber.

In other words, Trump has run out of room for mistakes, and needs Clinton to fumble in order to win. 1:4 sounds about right, but I'm still deeply uncomfortable about that.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#141803: Oct 5th 2016 at 9:33:09 AM

538's Now-cast seems to have Clinton pulling ahead in Iowa, although it's a very slim lead.

The VP debate doesn't seem to have affected the polls that much, but that could change.

Oh God! Natural light!
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#141804: Oct 5th 2016 at 9:40:50 AM

IAT: Uh, what you're describing is basically threatening the debate participants with assault. If this is a joke, it's a terrible one. If you're joking, you're basically suggesting something that just won't fucking work and is a terrible idea. Anything done under the threat of violence is never a good thing.

Also, we actually went over this regarding the moderators behavior: Apparently many who end up moderating the debate have like, this platonic ideal regarding what moderators are supposed to do, which is basically just ask questions and otherwise disappear from the equations while the two participants do their best to persuade the American public. Many who end up moderating these things don't think they ought to be influencing the debate like you or many of the rest of us would like.

TL; DR on that subject; The moderators think it's up to the participants to fact check each other during the debate, and that it's not the job of the moderators or anyone else. They've got a point.

edited 5th Oct '16 9:42:48 AM by AceofSpades

FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#141805: Oct 5th 2016 at 10:08:26 AM

Why bother having moderators then. Just hand them questions and go away if thats the case.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#141806: Oct 5th 2016 at 10:09:45 AM

They still need to steer the conversation and make sure both sides get roughly the same amount of talking time.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#141807: Oct 5th 2016 at 10:20:33 AM

I should point out that this is consistent with what I remember being taught in an actual debate/speech class; it was up to the participants to make their points, not the moderators. The moderators were there to moderate, as in direct the conversation the way it was supposed to go and make sure we stayed within our time limit. Otherwise it would just be two people arguing over any little thing that came into their heads. Being smart enough to realize when the other guy was saying lies, was just wrong, or was coming to what we perceived was a flawed conclusion was up to the actual debaters. The point of the whole thing was for two people to debate each other, not talk at each other and have a third person occasionally interject.

This boils down to what people think moderators should be there to do. What the professionals try to do is keep in line with what has come to be expected of debates in general.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#141808: Oct 5th 2016 at 10:36:18 AM

The issue is that if candidates fact check it turns into a he said she said thing. If the moderator does it it seems more legitimate.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#141809: Oct 5th 2016 at 10:43:02 AM

Not sure where it was from (maybe a Washington Post or Vox Op-ed), but something I read this morning argued that the main issues with her moderation was a combination of lackluster questions (in particular buying into that Republican debt/deficit conflation and framing questions in terms of "a lot of people think this" rather than the substance of an issue) and not going further to explore a question brought up by one of the debaters.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#141810: Oct 5th 2016 at 10:44:19 AM

Hm, what if you had a team of a moderator and a fact checker for each candidate to raise fact check points as follow up questions after the candidates have their chance?

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#141812: Oct 5th 2016 at 10:50:34 AM

I thought this might happen, Trump isn't happy if people do better than him even if it helps his campaign.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#141814: Oct 5th 2016 at 11:10:58 AM

[up][up] That is a TERRIBLE way to run anything, much less a presidential election campaign.

Not that I mind, since I don't want Trump to win.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141815: Oct 5th 2016 at 11:12:42 AM

Oof. He's really in a downward spiral now, isn't he? I mean, he hasn't actually done anything against Pence yet, but if he does... the phrase 'digging your own grave' feels inadequate.

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#141816: Oct 5th 2016 at 11:13:16 AM

Kostya: All that tells me is that maybe people are missing the point of what a debate is supposed to be for. Also, if the candidates can't prove their points themselves, then the moderator saying anything just sort of makes them look ineffective. A large part of what debates are supposed to do is let them prove they know their shit, so having to rely on someone else to fact check like that just sort of takes away from that.

[up]His daughter might be able to convince him not to; she seems a good deal savvier than her father in many respects. In any event, it really isn't hard to do better than him in a one on one debate. The format doesn't allow for zingers and his weird whispering into the mike was obviously weird without anyone else to distract from it.

edited 5th Oct '16 11:16:27 AM by AceofSpades

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#141817: Oct 5th 2016 at 11:15:57 AM

The moderators should ask the questions based on facts and not public opinion or anything, but the candidates should argue their own points.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#141818: Oct 5th 2016 at 11:47:44 AM

Donald Trump is doing worse among white voters than Romney did. To makes things even better, the trends are going against him. And his core demographics aren't registering to vote.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-doing-worse-than-romney-did-among-white-voters/

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#141819: Oct 5th 2016 at 12:06:57 PM

Pfft. Dude can't even win the white vote, and his platform is specifically catering to them.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#141820: Oct 5th 2016 at 12:16:52 PM

It probably helps that half of the white vote isn't male.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#141821: Oct 5th 2016 at 12:21:00 PM

Educated whites and white women in general are a problem for him. He's only up by 4% among the latter, and that's not nearly enough.

If Gary Johnson and Jill Stein weren't being assholes (and/or their supporters were capable of being realists when Western civilization is at stake), Clinton could be winning in a landslide right now.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#141823: Oct 5th 2016 at 12:46:27 PM

I've noticed that some of Trump's people don't try to defend him when certain topics come up; they just change the subject.

Some are more tactful at this than others.

Donald Trump is doing worse among white voters than Romney did. To makes things even better, the trends are going against him. And his core demographics aren't registering to vote.

That's great. He's so screwed if he can't even get white folks to vote for him.

I love seeing statistics like this. It reminds me that the American people aren't so stupid as to fall for Trump. That's comforting.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#141824: Oct 5th 2016 at 12:56:01 PM

Re: Defense of Trump:

Watching the Daily Show reaction to the VP Debate, and Trevor Noah describes Pence as that guy who can't convince his friend not to drive drunk but is very good at convincing the police that he isn't actually drunk.

Also the most consistent compliment he had for Trump is "broad-shouldered"

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#141825: Oct 5th 2016 at 1:16:58 PM

@ Ambar: Would you mind going into a bit more detail about that video? I can't watch it right now.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.

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