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ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#141751: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:20:04 PM

Honestly, the part that stuck out on the question that led into the abortion debate was that Pence didn't actually answer the question.

The question was for them to give an example of when they've struggled with their faith versus their responsibility to govern. Kaine's answer was regarding his personal stance against the Death Penalty, but he never allowed his personal convictions to override the rule of law. Pence, on the other hand, brought up how many great strides Indiana has made in regards to restricting abortion and protecting the sanctity of life - which is the exact opposite of what the question's asking, as he was allowing his personal convictions to shape the rule of law.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#141752: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:20:32 PM

Speaking of the Guccifer 2.0 hack, it would appear that study of the leaked content is either publicly available, old or faked.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#141753: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:21:01 PM

@Capsase- While I agree that this may very well be helpful to some degree due to Pence's good performance and Kaine's lousy performance, I raise an eyebrow at the fact that you never think anything the Clinton campaign does will have a positive impact for them, but are certain that this will help the Trump campaign.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#141754: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:23:47 PM

[up] That's not my stance. My stance is that, based on demographics, economics, and historical voting trends, it should be a race of about +1 in favor of the democrats. Thus, in the current state of the race, it's much easier for Trump to gain ground on Clinton than the converse. If Trump ends up very close again, we should expect him to start having a great deal of trouble going further, and, if third party support eventually collapses and turnout doesn't plummet, Clinton should pull through no matter how well Trump behaves over the next few weeks.

edited 4th Oct '16 8:25:29 PM by CaptainCapsase

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#141755: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:25:35 PM

I'll say this, neither of them are Joe Biden.

Oh God! Natural light!
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#141756: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:27:34 PM

Pence is pro adoption. He is bringing up partial birth abortion. I don't understand why we aren't allowed to ban that.

The complaints about "partial birth abortion" are complete bullshit. It's only done when the fetus has major, major problems, like that it managed to develop without a brain, is already dead inside the womb and poisoning the mother, or has 0% chance to live after birth and will likely kill the mother too.

Nobody carries a fetus for 20+ weeks and then decides to go through that just because. There are reasons, and the right trying to demonize the procedure and the people who have no choice but to go through it is nothing but a bugaboo. Learn up, Jack, and don't repeat cheap talking points designed to scare people into not using their brains.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#141757: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:27:53 PM

@Capsase-

I agree with that. But what my point is, is that like I'm not sure what if anything you posted in regard to the impact of the VP debate prior to it happening, but like you didn't think that the performances at the presidential debate would do much to hurt Trump or help Clinton.

Like it seems kind of glaring to me that you are always skeptical of something helping Clinton but are not at all skeptical of something helping Trump.

edited 4th Oct '16 8:28:53 PM by Hodor2

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#141758: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:29:37 PM

[up] The debate didn't hurt Trump insofar as he actually gained support hasn't lost support in polling aggregates. Clinton's debate bounce was much, much bigger however, hence the large gap between them at this point.

edited 4th Oct '16 8:31:16 PM by CaptainCapsase

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#141759: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:30:13 PM

I remember when Joe Biden was seen as The Load and a gaffe machine almost on par with Dan Quayle.

By the end of Obama's term, he's the hero America wants, so to speak.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#141760: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:31:15 PM

I totally missed the debate, what happened?

Oh really when?
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#141761: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:32:10 PM

Kaine went from America's stepdad to tire fire.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#141762: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:32:22 PM

[up][up] Pence remained calm, mostly avoided talking about Trump, and disguised his policies' many downsides with soft words. Kaine kept interrupting Pence (almost as bad as Trump in last week's debate), and sounded fairly scripted.

[up] Anyway, my position, as it was after the first Clinton Trump debate, is that this race in the long run should tend towards a narrow democratic victory. Very little Trump can do will change that, but Clinton's ability to stop a partial Trump comeback is also limited.

A Trump victory will require Trump to do everything right over the next few weeks, and for Clinton to make a costly mistake or two. So I'd say 538's 30% ish chance is right on the money.

edited 4th Oct '16 8:38:57 PM by CaptainCapsase

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#141763: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:33:24 PM

Ugh

Oh really when?
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#141764: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:33:59 PM

I hope the next debate is more substantive.

Do not obey in advance.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#141765: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:34:30 PM

Pence is pro adoption. He is bringing up partial birth abortion. I don't understand why we aren't allowed to ban that.

As one reporter tweeted, Kaine tried to win the argument, Pence tried to win the audience. Nearly everyone agrees that Pence came out ahead, but not enough to help Trump much, if at all.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#141766: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:40:59 PM

Pence's little speech about abortion at the end was really disgusting, though.

I mean, how can you run for the No. 2 spot in the government of the planet's greatest power and , self-proclaimed, leader of the Western "free' world" and seriously claim, on live TV, no less, that the state shouldn't provide help to women seeking abortion?

How's that any different than, say, Erdogan's faith influenced political strongmanship? He should be relegated to the same nutty, fringe political fringe as Jill Stein.

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#141767: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:42:08 PM

I'm not going to start worrying unless Clinton screws up big time on Sunday.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#141768: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:43:45 PM

A screwup on Sunday wouldn't be all that bad. What she cannot afford is something of that sort in the third debate in a world where Trump somehow behaves himself for a month. That requires a few somewhat improbable things to converge, but polls have been extremely volatile this campaign season.

edited 4th Oct '16 8:44:26 PM by CaptainCapsase

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#141769: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:47:10 PM

Kaine tried to win the argument, Pence tried to win the audience

I believe there's a Trope for that. Particularly the famous "Ice Cream Debate" from Thank You for Smoking.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#141770: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:52:53 PM

Transcript, for those that missed it. (I personally missed the first hour but caught the last half hour)

Kind of annoyed that Pence didn't have a meltdown like Trump did, but one moment that I thought Kaine owned him was:

Sen. Kaine: I think you should live your moral values, but the last thing governments should do is to have laws that would punish women who make reproductive choices. That is the fundamental difference between the Clinton-Kaine ticket and the Trump-Pence ticket.

Gov. Pence: It is really not. Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that would punish women who made the heartbreaking choice.

Sen. Kaine: Then, why did he say that?

Gov. Pence: Look, he is not a polished politician like you and Hillary Clinton.

Sen. Kaine: There is a great line from the gospel. When Donald Trump says women should be punished, that Mexicans are rapists and criminals, he is showing you who he is.

Yes, that's the best defense Pence can use on the crap Trump says: He's not a polished politician.

edited 4th Oct '16 8:54:11 PM by speedyboris

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#141771: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:53:03 PM

While I don't think this would have been helpful, regarding the "Putin as a strong leader" thing, I wish Kaine would have said something to the effect that if Obama was a strong leader in the way Putin is, Trump and Kaine would be in prison and/or have contracted a mysterious case of polonium poisoning.

[up] Yeah, I agree that this was one of his few really successful rebuttals.

edited 4th Oct '16 8:53:43 PM by Hodor2

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#141772: Oct 4th 2016 at 8:53:39 PM

[up][up][up]From what I'm hearing, it's not too far off. Kaine tried to be the attack dog and prove Trump and Pence wrong, Pence just sat back, deflected, and tried to look like the sane man complement to his nutty boss.

edited 4th Oct '16 8:54:16 PM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#141773: Oct 4th 2016 at 9:02:32 PM

It certainly felt like Pence won, the one saving grace for Kaine is that people don't care so much about the VP as they do the president. Kaine came out looking bad, however he threw a lot of mud at Trump and I think some of it will stick, Pence never really got a strong shot off on Clinton because he was playing defence for Trump the whole time.

Pence was debating Kaine, Kaine was debating Trump.

edited 4th Oct '16 9:03:53 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#141774: Oct 4th 2016 at 9:05:26 PM

Was hoping for something akin to 2012 Biden, but we can't get everything we want.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.

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