TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#141351: Oct 3rd 2016 at 10:36:26 AM

[up][up]

Why the heck would it be Berlin time?

Because that's where they're holding the conference! It would be 10:00 in the morning in Berlin.

edited 3rd Oct '16 10:38:57 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#141352: Oct 3rd 2016 at 10:39:33 AM

If it puts Clinton in jail then why does it matter when he releases it? He should just release it now and take her down immediately. Then Trump can ride things out unopposed.

Because Trump wouldn't ride things out unopposed. In the event that this hypothetical October Surprise was something as damning as, say, Hillary shooting a person on-camera or somesuch, then releasing it in July would just mean the Dems pick someone else to run against Trump. And having a fresh, new face suddenly opposing him might actually be to their benefit, all things considered.

The purpose of the proposed October Surprise isn't just to make Hillary lose, but to make Trump win. The idea is to release the thing at a point where it's too late to grab a runner-up and Trump slides to victory in November by virtue of not having any real competitors at all.

Regardless of whether or not whatever Wiki Leaks has is really as damning as they think it is, the point of the October Surprise betrays their true movies: that they aren't about freedom of press or finding justice for accused crimes. They're a political tool in Trump's favor.

Rudy Giuliani claimed that Trump would be better for the US than a woman. Yes, those are his words.

Jesus, they can't even pretend not to be misogynistic for five seconds, can they?

President Obama's statement is actually rather sympathetic to the GOP. He claims that he's actually able to get along with individual GOP legislators. He thinks the problem is conservative media and its tendency to demonize any "moderate" Republican who tries to compromise as a sell-out.

That's more or less exactly the problem. Compromise is dead in the GOP because every Republican senator has to worry about their extremist subset looking over their shoulder every second of every day. One moment of weakness, one errant word not pandering to the hate-crowd, one instance of giving the Dems the slightest inch, and you can kiss your political career goodbye.

The ability to just close some doors, turn around, and go, "JESUS CHRIST, these voters. They're f*cking rabid. Anyways, let's talk shop," is a thing of the past. We've worked very hard to remove both the means and the incentives for cooperation and fill our Congressional seats with zealous, unyielding ideologies. Now we're paying for it.

We've been so busy trying to close the door on corruption that we've allowed extremist fanaticism to take its place, which is much worse. And it's funny 'cause we're so blind to it.

"LOL those wacky Middle Easterners. They don't even know how to democracy without making it about their religion. It's so stupid. Anyways, let's talk about how LGBT marriage is a blight upon good Christian values."

edited 3rd Oct '16 10:41:44 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#141353: Oct 3rd 2016 at 10:56:03 AM

In a scenario where corruption, pragmatic horsetrading and the like has been fought down to a losing scenario and replaced with irrational ideology, I would expect financial contributions and influence, to go down massively. The statistics don't support this, though; if we go by lobbying annually, the cash injections peaked around 2009 and have been holding steady at over three billion every year. We're certainly not seeing corporations and the wealthy wielding less influence overall over campaigns in general. Our two presidential frontrunners (regardless of their respect virtues and flaws) certainly are no sign of raw ideology trumping money or pre-established power-brokering networks.

So at that point I have to ask, what is 'corruption' even supposed to mean in this context, and how is it exactly that we've been fighting it so hard? Is it just supposed to mean a willingness to compromise? Because if so, you ought to know we only have one party and its associated media to blame for that.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#141354: Oct 3rd 2016 at 10:59:40 AM

RE: Why Assange hates Clinton

Everyone seems to be stepping around an obvious answer here—namely that accused rapist Assange may just not like women.

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#141355: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:04:09 AM

But then he wouldn't have to wait to release the information, no? If he simply wanted a man in office, he could've released it earlier and make it a race between Sanders and Trump. The same if he just hates Clinton for other reasons. It looks though, that he actually wants to help Trump as much as possible, not hurt Clinton specifically.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#141356: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:04:33 AM

I REALLY hope that whatever they release won't be any worse than the DNC leaks.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#141357: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:04:59 AM

[up][up] The two aren't mutually exclusive, mind you. Helping Trump hurts women.

edited 3rd Oct '16 11:06:49 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#141358: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:06:03 AM

Plausible and far fetched, but I think a personal vendetta against Clinton because she played a role in his troubles when she was Secretary of State is more plausible.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#141359: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:06:13 AM

I wonder if future elections and such are going to go back to pen and paper correspondence.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#141360: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:08:09 AM

In a scenario where corruption, pragmatic horsetrading and the like has been fought down to a losing scenario and replaced with irrational ideology, I would expect financial contributions and influence, to go down massively. The statistics don't support this, though; if we go by lobbying annually, the cash injections peaked around 2009 and have been holding steady at over three billion every year. We're certainly not seeing corporations and the wealthy wielding less influence overall over campaigns in general. Our two presidential frontrunners (regardless of their respect virtues and flaws) certainly are no sign of raw ideology trumping money or pre-established power-brokering networks.

So at that point I have to ask, what is 'corruption' even supposed to mean in this context, and how is it exactly that we've been fighting it so hard? Is it just supposed to mean a willingness to compromise? Because if so, you ought to know we only have one party and its associated media to blame for that.

Trump is a sign of exactly that. Despite being underfunded in part due to many GOP financiers pulling their support and moving over to Clinton's campaign, Trump is still going strong on sheer force of personality and ideology. People aren't voting for him because they want someone they can bribe into signing off on their special interest.

Ted Cruz and Donald Trump, the two most successful candidates in the GOP primary, are both the product of radical extremism overtaking enlightened self-interest in the GOP.

edited 3rd Oct '16 11:09:11 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#141361: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:13:03 AM

Or Assange just hates the US in general. Hurting the US by electing Trump makes sense in that case. Especially if Wikileaks has ties to Russia.

Of course, Assange's a massive asshole in any case. His sexism might just not be the only reason for his behaviour.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#141362: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:31:14 AM

People also aren't voting for him because they want someone who's ideologically consistent, either. I thought that was implicit in the idea of a 'non-corrupt' candidate? Trump is a candidate who just says what he thinks his base wants to hear at any particular minute, how does that imply political purity? He's not any more ideologically extreme than most of his competition was in the party party, he's just a louder egotist and a more shameless swindler.

It's true that his campaign is working on smaller contributions than typical for a presidential frontrunner based on the past few cycles. 'Only' over a hundred million dollars (just above Cruz, yes), as opposed to Clinton's three hundred million atm. But if you told me that any charismatic guy could have walked up on a stage and said the things Trump says and had even a tiny percentile of the same degree of success without his background as an independently wealthy businessman celebrity, I'd call you a liar. He hasn't had the same kind of support his rivals got, but they weren't all using the same starting line in the first place.

I don't think his success has anything to do with either corruption or pure ideology as such, but has much more to do with the phenomenon of celebrity worship and superficiality.

edited 3rd Oct '16 11:31:40 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#141363: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:51:48 AM

People at my school like to make fun of Clinton for not being liberal enough

Like what the hell do you want people

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#141364: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:53:27 AM

[up] For her to not be Hillary Clinton.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#141365: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:58:40 AM

People also aren't voting for him because they want someone who's ideologically consistent, either. I thought that was implicit in the idea of a 'non-corrupt' candidate? Trump is a candidate who just says what he thinks his base wants to hear at any particular minute, how does that imply political purity? He's not any more ideologically extreme than most of his competition was in the party party, he's just a louder egotist and a more shameless swindler.

That's not how his supporters see him. Or have you not heard the claims of, "Everything he says is true! He says what we're all thinking! He's incorruptible because he's completely honest about everything he believes and just says the thoughts that come straight to his head!"

That's what the GOP wants: ideological purity. Someone who cannot be corrupted because he believes in nothing more than the God's Honest Truth that spills out of his mouth every second of every day. That's what made Trump so effective: the myth of honesty, made up of equal parts radical extremist positions and the assumption held by many both for and against him that he's too stupid to lie effectively.

To those still in the GOP voterbase, it's not about running an effective government at all. It's about Saving America's Soul by having a candidate who will push Christian dogma into law and resist the temptation of Satan's devil-money.

edited 3rd Oct '16 12:00:11 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#141366: Oct 3rd 2016 at 11:59:29 AM

[up][up][up]I get it, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.

edited 3rd Oct '16 12:00:22 PM by LSBK

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#141367: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:01:14 PM

Yet people accuse Clinton of the same God damn thing. Where did this myth that she's bought off even come from? I haven't heard of her voting for anything specific that indicates it.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#141368: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:07:12 PM

She must be bought and paid for somebody because how else would we justify all our "there's nobody good to vote for" angst?

edited 3rd Oct '16 12:07:19 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#141369: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:07:48 PM

[up][up]Much of the blame goes to the GOP smear campaign that's been in operation for decades.

edited 3rd Oct '16 12:08:25 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#141370: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:33:17 PM

Well regardless of whatever emails or operation she may or may not be guilty of, given all the suspicious crap that Trump has pulled non-stop on the campaign trail as well as his apparently loosening grip on reality, I'll take passable over trainwreck any day.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#141371: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:35:05 PM

What's that Trump? Military suicides happen because some people "Can't handle it"?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/politics/donald-trump-ptsd-suicide/index.html

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#141372: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:39:37 PM

[up]That's an awful thing for anyone to say. It's somehow much worse coming from a draft-dodger.

Disgusted, but not surprised
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#141373: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:42:47 PM

[up][up]He's technically right. After all, War Is Hell. Question is, is Trump shaming them for not being able to "handle it"?

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#141374: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:47:33 PM

[up] Of course he is.

Keep Rolling On
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#141375: Oct 3rd 2016 at 12:48:53 PM

He's (intentionally or not) feeding into the toxic misconception that only "weak" veterans/people get PTSD and/or experience suicidal thought. And after what's he's said about wounded, captured and dead soldiers, he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

Total posts: 417,856
Top