Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
As news of Trump’s taxes breaks, he goes off script at a rally in Pennsylvania
. Meltdown in process.
If Trump loses I half expect him to use his "concession" speech to try and start an insurrection, or at least some riots.
Barbra Bush, one of Bush 43's daughters, was spotted at a Clinton fundraiser.
Looks like the entire Bush clan is gunning for Trump, but some are more open about it.
edited 2nd Oct '16 11:17:28 AM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.A telling quote from the WP article on the Trump Rally:
edited 2nd Oct '16 11:22:29 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On![]()
A big part of Trump's communication style comes in the form of gestures and other nonverbal cues. Maybe it's because I'm also from the southern New York area, but I've never really had much trouble understanding what he's saying.
That being said, sounding like a random taxi driver in Brooklyn does not qualify you to be president.
edited 2nd Oct '16 11:40:12 AM by CaptainCapsase
It does sound a bit better in person- it sounds candid, like he's making it up as he goes along. It's not some prepared statement; it's his real, stream-of-consciousness thoughts. But stream-of-consciousness looks incoherent when you transcribe it exactly. Because it is incoherent, although it doesn't always look it like when you're only processing one phrase at a time.
I think this breakdown has definitely proven that Trump's staff and handlers (let alone the GOP/RNC) have no control over him. They wanted him to stay on message, because they know if he tries to do in the General what he did in the Primaries, they'll be lucky to only lose the White House.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.Whatever is actually in Trump’s tax returns is worse than what the New York Times says (Vox)
The article is short, so I'll quote this:
Trump being under massive levels of debt is probably the safest assumption.
It has to be something that would seriously harm his chances of winning the Presidency, but not be blatantly illegal since the IRS probably would of caught it by now (though when you increase the number of eyeballs a thousand times over, stuff can turn up that even experts would miss). And crushing debt would certainly fit the criteria.
Incidentally, an article on Trump's second-hand fleet of aircraft
:
Four of the five aircraft are more than 20 years old, a rarity for most billionaires. The exception is a 19-year-old Cessna 750 Citation X — the only one of the five without the Trump name painted on it in large letters. The smaller plane was grounded last week after The New York Times reported that its registration had expired in January. It is now cleared to fly again, according to the F.A.A.
Most people who own aircraft do not have more than one or two. Even those who can afford to own planes often lease or charter them instead, offering a layer of ease and anonymity. But anonymity is not Mr. Trump’s style. The Boeing, built in 1991 to seat roughly 200 people, is Mr. Trump’s favorite flying toy, he said in an interview on Saturday. The jet, which once did duty with a commercial airline in Mexico in the 1990s, has been famously renovated. It has a bedroom; the fixtures are brushed with 24-karat gold; and the toilet seats were reupholstered with Edelman leather, which also graces the Eames chairs in Ivanka Trump’s den.
“It’s like a new plane,” Mr. Trump said in a documentary that showed off some of the renovations. “The plane is very much an extension of the Trump brand.”
While the 757 might seem like an odd choice for a man who puts his net worth at $11 billion, and, records show, does not use the plane much to travel abroad, Mr. Trump has cited it and his other planes as proof of how he gets good value for his money. In the 1980s, for example, he paid $8 million to buy a 1968 Boeing 727 from a financially troubled Texas company, Diamond Shamrock, according to his book “The Art of the Deal.” Mr. Trump said a smaller Gulfstream jet would have cost more than twice as much.
“It was a little more plane than I needed,” he wrote, “but I find it hard to resist a good deal when the opportunity presents itself.”
In the interview on Saturday, Mr. Trump said he did not own the five aircraft to burnish his brand, but agreed that the fleet had “promotional value.” He added that he could get by without owning a Boeing 757 but it was a “great luxury to have.”
Air travel is one of the largest expenses of Mr. Trump’s Republican presidential campaign: A company he owns has charged the campaign approximately $3.7 million in travel costs since he announced his candidacy in June 2015. Using the 757 does not help keep costs down: It guzzles fuel and costs thousands of dollars an hour to fly, more than private planes being used to shuttle other presidential candidates. Still, Mr. Trump has used it to crisscross the country, sometimes with just a small group of people aboard.
The Boeing also weighs more than 100,000 pounds, making it too heavy to land at many smaller airports, including one at Teterboro, N.J., the airport of choice for wealthy New Yorkers like Mr. Trump. Instead it must fly in and out of La Guardia Airport in Queens, which Mr. Trump, and others, have likened to what one might find in a third world country. La Guardia does offer a marketing perk: The 757 can often be seen at the airport, a billboard on wheels.
A company controlled by the billionaire Paul Allen, a founder of Microsoft, had bought that plane in 1995. Mr. Allen did a full renovation, transforming it into a luxurious private jet. He installed a master suite that included a bathroom and guest room. He put a conference table, overhead projector and bar in the center of the aircraft. This room had two couches and 11 single seats, according to F.A.A. records. Elsewhere on the plane, Mr. Allen installed 12 sleeper seats, each with their own foldout monitors.
He agreed to sell it to Mr. Trump in 2010, records show. The purchase price was not disclosed, though it was widely reported that Mr. Trump paid $100 million. The aircraft was insured at a value of $35 million in 2011, records show, and aviation experts say it is currently worth about $18 million. Boeing no longer makes 757s, but a 2015 Boeing Business Jet would sell for approximately $80 million, and cost anywhere from $20 million to $40 million to outfit.
After Mr. Trump took possession of the 757 in 2011 he made a number of changes but did not fundamentally undo Mr. Allen’s initial renovation, records show. For instance, he kept the headboard in the master bedroom, as well as most of the chairs, couches and toilet seats Mr. Allen had left, choosing to reupholster them.
Greg Raiff, chief executive officer of Private Jet Services, an aviation consulting firm and private-jet charter broker for corporations and individuals, said the Boeing was an unusual aircraft for a man of Mr. Trump’s wealth. “Buying a 25-year-old 757 is like buying a bag of Cheetos. It’s a lot of food for a low price,” he said.
The Cessna was previously owned by NetJets, an aircraft company that caters to the nation’s wealthiest people, and has flown more than other planes its age, records show. It was worth $15.3 million new and has a current resale value of approximately $3.2 million, according to an estimate by Vref Publishing, a company that supplies information about aircraft values. The Times paid Vref to value the plane based on publicly available information.
Mr. Trump’s three other aircraft are helicopters. Two of those are 1989 Sikorsky S-76Bs, one of which was used to give rides to children at the Iowa State Fair.
Mr. Trump took possession of the other 1989 in August 2014. It has logged only a handful of flights with the F.A.A. since he took possession, records show, though not all chopper flights are logged with the federal regulator. One notable trip that it received clearance to make was on New Year’s Eve in 2015, when, records show, it was given authorization to fly to Nassau, in the Bahamas, from West Palm Beach, Fla. Both helicopters are worth approximately $875,000, according to Vref.
The third helicopter, a 1990 Sikorsky S-76B, was purchased in March 2012 and is currently worth roughly $940,000. The Trump Organization has used pictures of it to help market its golf courses. It was shipped to Scotland in 2015, for the use of clients of Trump Turnberry Resort in Scotland.
And another, illustrated article on the 757
.
edited 2nd Oct '16 2:23:51 PM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling OnI think it would be hilarious if the times has Trump's current returns and released them during the second debate. He'd go ballistic.
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?Thing is that the Trump campaign is right about one thing: unless the returns in question are part of the public record as a result of a legal investigation, there is no legal way the NYT could have gotten a hold of his '95 record. I'm not even sure it was legal for them to publish. The country may later thank them and their source for risking legal consequences to release what they have but they are potentially playing with fire.
Edit: The relevant law
which does suggest that they would also be illegal to publish. The Times could attempt a First Amendment defense but it wouldn't be a sure thing. The editor, Dean Baquet, along with the Wa-Po editor Bob Woodward, have publicly said they'd take that risk
when asked in the past.
edited 2nd Oct '16 3:01:10 PM by Elle
You guys actually need to watch Frontline's documentary "The Choice 2016." It interestingly details the lives of both presidential candidates this cycle and compares their lives at similar points in time. At one point during Donald Trump's bad decisions in the '90s, he was only saved from Chapter 11 Bankruptcy because the banks owed money assessed that it was the Trump brandname that held the vast amount of Donald Trump's value, not his properties or his business endeavors. In essence and even the documentary stated this... "The banks decided that Donald Trump was too big to fail."
edited 2nd Oct '16 2:50:28 PM by GameGuruGG
Wizard Needs Food BadlyMeanwhile I see people that I know posting Facebook image macros with Hillary's face over pictures of Adolf Hitler. We are a fucking insane country.
edited 2nd Oct '16 3:16:01 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I got into an argument with my mom's coworkers on Facebook recently. After they started making claims about Hillary having her inner circle assassinated in the 90s, all it took was a fact check before they started employing what I call the filial piety coupon—I was disrespecting my elders by winning the argument, you see.
edited 2nd Oct '16 4:13:52 PM by Lennik
That's right, boys. Mondo cool.

"To avoid the holiday rush, Christmas cards should be mailed no later than July 4th."
However, it's become more popular in recent years, especially where voting districts have adopted unconditional "no excuse" rules for voting early.[1]
Can't do it where I live, though.
edited 2nd Oct '16 11:09:46 AM by pwiegle
This Space Intentionally Left Blank.