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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
@String-of-numbers: Do newspapers where you live not have opinion sections or something? The US alliance with both has been criticised for ages, it seems that you are incapable of anything other than a black and white view of US alliances.
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot![]()
I wasn't asking you, Caspase. I know that normally we let anybody answer anything, but not in this case. String-of-numbers raised the issue, then spent his last batch of posts dodging having to deal with it. It's a tactic he's employed in a couple of other threads, as well as multiple times in this discussion. I want an answer from him.
Also, as previously noted, they keep finding mass graves in Iraq, and Saddam's total body count keeps getting revised—and always upward.
What I find fascinating is how he keeps trying to compare Putin's actions in Crimea with American actions in Cuba. Under Obama the USA's relationship with Cuba is at the friendliest it's been in decades. He hasn't invaded Cuba. He hasn't annexed part of it. He hasn't done anything to them. He's comparing current Russian action to things the USA did in the Cold War, and trying to create an equivalency.
edited 22nd Sep '16 7:52:21 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
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Or acknowledge he wouldn't be but supporting him anyway. The country was kinda founded on people deciding that our legally legitimate ruler had crossed too many lines to remain so after all. The most famous of our founding documents was an essay outlining the justifications.
edited 22nd Sep '16 7:53:12 PM by Elle
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My mistake. That being said, if Cuba, or really any of America's neighbors were cozying up to a (currently nonexistent) rival superpower, I would be more surprised than not if we weren't fucking with them at least on the same level as cold-war Cuba. Russia didn't necessarily have to respond to this situation in such a violent manner, but please don't pretend NATO expanding into Ukraine isn't a legitimate security concern for Russia.
edited 22nd Sep '16 7:57:56 PM by CaptainCapsase
@Ambar 1) I'm not sure how to measure the atrocities, but Saddams worst crimes were done while Allied to the US.
2) I'm not a fan of dictatorships. I'm a supporter of democracy. I love the freedoms I have in my country. I just don't think we should be forcing democracy on people in another part of the world.
The main bankroller of the Nimble America PAC suspected by Internet idiots of being a Trump affinity fraud scheme is... Palmer Luckey of Oculus Rift
. Yes, investors, your units were delayed because the boss was sidetracked by his urge to shitpost. Anyone care to go through his tax returns and see if he's actually the "near-billionaire" he claims to be?
60 percent of people polled by Fox News believe that Trump is hiding something in his tax returns
.
Yet you seem to be perfectly fine with leaving anyone who isn't white to die when they want democracy and the dictator of the day insists otherwise. What is this, survival of the fittest (non-)voter?
edited 22nd Sep '16 7:56:40 PM by Krieger22
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiotWhich has nothing to do with the issue you raised. You asked, "is ISIS preferable to Saddam?" You asked it as though it were an easy question with an obvious answer of, "of course not". Then, when presented with the scale of Saddam's crimes against humanity—and the possibility that he might, in fact, have been as bad or worse than ISIS—you started trying to dodge the question. I can only conclude from this that when you first asked the question you didn't know anything—or at least not near enough—about Saddam's regime.
You posed the question. Now you had better answer it. You can repeat "he was an American ally" all you want and it won't change a damn thing.
Bull. The Libyan populace asked the EU and the USA to help them rid themselves of Qaddafi. You oppose it because "Qaddafi was their legitimate ruler". You therefore do not want the Libyan people to have democracy. Eastern European nations have pulled closer to NATO to try and prevent Putin from stealing their democratic rights. You oppose that because you don't want "Russia's sphere of influence" violated.
You do not support democracy.
Fun fact, neither the EU or US were responsible for the Libyan Transitional goverment implimenting democracy, that was purely the Libyan people.
X3 Another fun fact, there are groups with leaders in Syria and formally in Libya who are/were internationally recognised as the representatives of the Syrian/Libyan people.
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:04:22 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
Libya I will grant you, but in Eastern Europe there's a bit of a chicken and the egg problem. Eastern European nations are aligning with NATO because Russia is acting aggressively towards them and Russia is acting aggressively towards them because they're aligning with NATO. Both parties can legitimately consider one another threats to their national security. Russia's (extreme) response was clearly unwarranted, but they have a legitimate reason to complain about NATO being on their borders.
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:05:37 PM by CaptainCapsase
@Ambar Are you really saying invading Iraq was the right thing to do?
@Krieger 22 I'll flip it. You seem to be willing to let anyone who's not white die at the hands of our Allies.
Nope. It was a moronic invasion. But that's not the question you asked. You asked "was Saddam worse than ISIS." And now you are still trying to dodge the question.
Except of course that he's not since he has opposed most of the USA's worst alliances in the past. Something that a simple search of the thread—or heck, just reading what he's said to you—would tell you.
Nobody here supports all American action, all the time. We just aren't going to give credit to a Putin-supporting, Assad-and-Qaddafi-apologist.
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:12:47 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
@Cap: I propose the idea that NATO would not be a threat to Russia if Putin had not taken the stance he has against the EU and US, painting us as rivals in the interests of stirring up nationalism and his own power base. Yeltsin had his issues domestically but we didn't have so many relationship problems with him.
Russia may not currently be a superpower but Putin's trying to act like it is, perhaps in the hope of 'fake it till you make it".
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:15:20 PM by Elle
Oh, and given your stance against overthrowing "legitimate" dictatorships, I suppose we can only include that you think deposing Hitler was wrong?
PS—Don't call Godwin; you brought it up.
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:14:00 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
That's it, a vague platitude? There are many factors that must be calculated whenever an intervention is to be carried out. Explaining them to you appears to be a waste of time, seeing as all you've done is move goalposts. Do you have a hint of integrity in your person?
Today in awkward interviews, a pro-Trump pastor basically tried to drown out factchecking with yelling
. Sounds oddly familiar.
It's a securitisation paradox (there's a technically term but my old textbooks are at my parents), one side acts to boosts it's defences against what it seem as an aggressive opponent, said opponent sees said defensive increase as an increase in offensive capability and thus increases its own defensive capability that is then perceived as an increase in offensive capacity and the entire cycle starts over again.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran@Ambar 1) What I meant was that Iraq was better off before the Invasion.
2) Even if ISIS' body count was verifiable or if you could measure atrocotoes, ISIS hasn't been in a position of power as long as Saddam.
3) How many reporters does the Washington Post have digging into Hillary?
Yahoo is just giving the facts There's no reason to doubt it. However, they mention Russia's intrusion in America's political process. Has that ever been proven?
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:30:08 PM by 940131
Another dodge. The long and short of it is you asked a question for which the answer cannot be verified in an attempt at scoring cheap points.
And I'll note you haven't answered my other question either—since Hitler was, in your eyes, legitimate, were the Allies wrong to try and do something about him? After all, Poland was in Germany's traditional sphere of influence.
Don't know, don't care. All of Clinton's secrets are out in the open, what with her 30+ years of being investigated by every reporter in the USA. Trump's secrets are just being dug up now. And of course, unlike Clinton, Trump has actually violated the law, is currently being investigated—by actual cops, not Congress—for multiple counts of fraud, and has a long, proud tradition of racist statements. He should be investigated more thoroughly, because he's guilty of more stuff.
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:32:24 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Yeah, that's the thing about Clinton. She's constantly been investigated since she was the First Lady of Arkansas, and nothing worth anything has been found. She's exactly who she says she is.
Trump, on the other hand, has managed to mostly stay off the radar, but there are a lot of people who have noticed things that don't add up about him over the years. Most of Wall Street think he's a poser and, of course, the way he invests, always chasing the next massive payout and failing every time, is not indicative of a successful person.
And again, I'll point out, even the mess we left is an improvement over the mess that was Sadam. The democratic government there is plagued with corruption issues and ISIL is a looming threat but people can complain about their problems without being dragged off and shot and the Kurds are no longer persecuted.
(Edit to add: I can't do timecodes on Dailymotion to clip out the relevant parts of the episode and it's from 2011 but the Kurds were pretty grateful to the US and were doing generally better than other parts of Iraq.
Relevant parts start at 9 minutes in.)
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:47:47 PM by Elle
“Every critic, every detractor, will have to bow down to President Trump. It’s everyone who’s ever doubted Donald, who ever disagreed, who ever challenged him. It is the ultimate revenge to become the most powerful man in the universe.”
IF there was ANY doubt of Trump's intentions from Day 1, this should put them to bed.
New Survey coming this weekend!@Ambar 1) You're dodging. Do you think the Iraqis are better off now than they were under Saddam and if America is such a perfect little flower why did the US support him when he attacked Iran and was gassing the Kurds. Why didn't they go and save the people of Iraq?
2) Trumps had people digging into him longer than Hillary. She entered the national spotlight in the '90's. Trumps brrn famous since the 80's if not the 70's.
edited 22nd Sep '16 8:57:00 PM by 940131

edited 22nd Sep '16 7:49:04 PM by CaptainCapsase