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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

FalseDichotomy from Your mind :o Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#138951: Sep 17th 2016 at 10:41:38 AM

I've never really understood how people could get so upset about the demonym "American". Names aren't always logically given or always make any sense. So for people to act like there's this great unified naming convention, and then get upset when it's broken, this has always struck me as childish.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#138952: Sep 17th 2016 at 10:41:43 AM

The Handle, This is Schoolhouse Rock... and since it is from their American Rock catagory, it was made in 1976 for the USA's Bicentennial. Schoolhouse Rock's American Rock is very '70s pop history with exception to "I'm Just A Bill" which is a completely accurate description of the Law-Making Process in the United States within a single music video. Accurate enough that it is actually required viewing for interns to federal government offices.

Also the reason why the United States of America is called that is because initially it was supposed to be a union of nations similar to the European Union. They were 13 separate states in America that were united... hence the United States of America. However, the Articles of Confederation ended up being untenable and was replaced with the U.S. Constitution which gave a more centralized government... and over the two centuries of its existence, the federal government gained more and more power until basically it went from something like the European Union to an actual nation in its own right.

edited 17th Sep '16 10:43:32 AM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#138953: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:10:18 AM

Bill Maher grills Trump's campaign manager. The amount of valid questions she dodged is unbelievable.

edited 17th Sep '16 11:10:33 AM by speedyboris

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#138954: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:11:33 AM

[up][up][up] Geopolitics and (local) leftism largely. A lot of anti-US, anti-imperialist sentiment especially in Central and South America. Sometimes to the level of conspiracy theories. I've seen not even political activists but just regular left-leaning people from those countries express sympathies and apologetics for totalitarian governments like Russia, China, or imperial Japan, or even ISIS and Al Qaeda mostly because they are or were opposed to the US, and they also have strong anti-Israel sentiments largely because they're seen as tools and puppets of US imperialism. Also a large undercurrent of anti-globalism because it's seen as intrinsically colonialist and because they think it's a tool for the US to destroy native cultures.

And referring to people from the US as "Americans" basically reinforces that. To be honest the US did a lot of really awful shit to them during the Cold War that's justifiable to hate it for, and I can sympathize with those people. If they wanna change the name because it makes them uncomfortable due to the US's actual history, that's one thing.

But some people take it too far, to the level of irrationality and whitewashing of actual atrocities in the name of promoting justice. I'm sorry but I cannot support anyone who refers to Imperial Japan as innocent victims of racism who only wanted to bring technology to the rest of Asia so they could fight back against white imperialism (even though they were themselves imperialists, it's even in the damn name), and whose war crimes were concocted by the US to malign them. Also that the comfort women were paid off by the US and other disturbing conspiracy theories like that.

edited 17th Sep '16 12:35:20 PM by AlleyOop

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#138955: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:29:05 AM

The Japanese were trying to fight back against white imperialism, but it was more of a "if we can't beat 'em, join 'em" thing. The were trying to establish themselves as an imperialist power before they became just another European colony.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138956: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:34:39 AM

Japanese imperialism with regards to China and Korea goes back further than that.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#138957: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:37:34 AM

[up] Quite. Toyotomi Hideyoshi attempted to invade Korea in 1592 and 1598.

edited 17th Sep '16 11:38:21 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138958: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:38:08 AM

And Chinese imperialism which Korea, Tibet, and Japan (and so on) were on the receiving end of go back even further. It's hardly an exclusively European phenomena.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#138959: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:40:54 AM

[up] Well, if we push right back, there was a time of proto-Globalisation when the Roman Empire and the Han Dynasty existed and trade occurred between them.

Keep Rolling On
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#138960: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:43:09 AM

Yes, if we completely ignore all historical context and the fact that the Japanese government was overthrown by a revolution in the 1800s then yes, empires are a thing that have always existed.

edited 17th Sep '16 11:43:19 AM by Clarste

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138961: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:46:01 AM

Korea in particular, namely, 1592-98, and more permanently as a colony in 1910 until the end of WWII.

[nja]

edited 17th Sep '16 11:47:08 AM by Elle

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138962: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:47:59 AM

@Mantle: by way of Persia and India, both of which were also united into powerful empires.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138963: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:50:30 AM

And through my own research for writing-related purposes I'm learning that trade between the world's civilizations and empires was going on much more and much more widely than most of our history books taught us, including with many kingdoms in Africa.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#138964: Sep 17th 2016 at 11:52:35 AM

The specific fear was that Western powers would just march right in and turn Japan into another India, or screw them over like China with some kind of opium war thing. Japanese Imperialism in the late 1800s through the early 1900s was a direct result of the circumstances of world history in which they happened, much like the fucking revolution they'd had immediately before they started. Yes, they'd had earlier wars with their neighbors, but at different times for different reasons.

This in no way alleviates them of their war crimes, and it was certainly also motivated by racism. But, you know, there was still a historical context. They didn't just wake up feeling particularly monstrous one morning. Just like how Hitler came into power in the wake of WW 1 unpleasantness for Germany.

edited 17th Sep '16 12:03:07 PM by Clarste

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#138965: Sep 17th 2016 at 12:35:12 PM

Scott Walker is apparently playing Tim Kaine for Mike Pence's debate prep.

New Survey coming this weekend!
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138966: Sep 17th 2016 at 12:38:27 PM

[up][up]"Become an empire to avoid being the puppet of an existing empire" was also the motivation/excuse for several European nations who were late to the colonial rush (notably, Germany and Italy).

[up]Man, I hope that Kaine hits Pence on his weakness as governor. Kaine is great from a policy perspective but the man lacks a certain fire that Biden or someone of his ilk would bring.

edited 17th Sep '16 12:39:37 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#138967: Sep 17th 2016 at 1:12:22 PM

I just have the funny feeling that the Kaine/Pence debate is gonna surprise us in how NOT boring it's gonna be.

Somebody is gonna get wrecked.

edited 17th Sep '16 1:12:45 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138968: Sep 17th 2016 at 1:20:17 PM

The debates can't come soon enough. I don't know how much more of Nate Silver's talk of "Trump can win this" I can take.

Hillary needs to show herself as the only remotely competent person in this race. She needs to expose him for his uninformed claims and lies and fact check him in real time on that stage. With a side by side comparison, the sheer contrast should be clear that night between professionalism and completely ignorant buffoon. That should get the undecideds in line.

Unless they truly are as stupid and airheaded as they seem.

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Jasaiga Since: Jan, 2015
#138969: Sep 17th 2016 at 1:22:49 PM

How many viewers can we reasonably suspect will tune in?

50 million? 55 million?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138970: Sep 17th 2016 at 1:50:30 PM

[up][up] The debate will very likely decide the outcome of the race. Trump's found his angle of attack—making Clinton look weak—and I imagine the Clinton campaign is aware of that. Unfortunately, it's quite probable that, as with George W. Bush, the "bar" will be lowered for Trump. If he doesn't make a fool of himself, he's likely to be declared the winner by the media and in the popular consciousness.

edited 17th Sep '16 1:58:11 PM by CaptainCapsase

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138971: Sep 17th 2016 at 2:00:54 PM

I dunno, Clinton has been hitting him pretty hard lately. I could see her tearing into him, and him reacting badly. That would be enough to give her the win.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#138972: Sep 17th 2016 at 2:02:56 PM

Tump has shown he can fake being civl when he wants to be. What if he lets Clinton go at him full blast, and holds back, making her look like the crazy one. Remember, Clinton has to be concerned about looking "shrill." He could also defend his supporters honor on the stage, something that would gain him points with many. All he has to do is look somewhat sane.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#138973: Sep 17th 2016 at 2:13:54 PM

If Clinton can find the right points to needle him on she might be able to provoke him into calling her a bitch or cunt on live television. If he does that then I don't think there's any way to salvage things.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138974: Sep 17th 2016 at 2:27:26 PM

[up] If I were advising Clinton, I'd strongly caution her against trying that. If the debate gets derailed into a circus act, Trump's more or less automatically won, given people have grown to expect this kind of tomfoolery from him.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138975: Sep 17th 2016 at 2:31:32 PM

[up][up]I think that's unlikely. Trump does seem to be able to play relatively normal, especially when it's for a set/limited amount of time. And I have to give him "credit" for kind of sort of disavowing birtherism and blaming Clinton for it. Because he or at least one of his advisers was smart enough to know that would come up in the debates, so it was wise to try to get it out of the way before then.

Trump's problem is more that whenever he successfully presents himself as sufficiently sane to be fawningly called Presidential, he'll say/do something stupid within the same week. And then the process repeats.

I will say though that with the birtherism that he probably didn't completely "win" on the issue. He kind of deflected Clinton's ability to use it against him by blaming her for the movement, but like presenting it as a legitimate policy issue and presenting himself as having done a service to the country by making Obama present his birth certificate- I don't think most people see it that this way (thankfully).

[up] I agree mostly. By the way, I apologize for the tone of my last post(s) in the thread toward you. It wasn't right of me to be so hostile and I will try to avoid it in the future I'm sorry.

Where I disagree somewhat with that though is that I'm not sure how positively Trump's behavior during the Republican debates was viewed. Like I think he can "win" the Presidential debates by restraining himself, but if he acts similarly to how he acted during the primary debates, I don't think it would be viewed with approval.

But yeah, I don't think Clinton will be successful in basing her strategy on an expectation of provoking Trump. Because Trump isn't really good at pretending to be sane for long periods, so she's better off practicing defense and letting him shoot himself in the foot.

edited 17th Sep '16 2:38:48 PM by Hodor2


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