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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138851: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:46:44 AM

[up][up][up][up] It's also an irrational decision from an individualist mindset. It's the only rational decision from a collectivist point of view, hence why I consider individualism a dead end.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:47:08 AM by CaptainCapsase

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138852: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:49:21 AM

From an individualist perspective it's rational to be a collectivist, because I can't hunt or grow crops for shit, thus collectivism is in my individualist interest.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:49:46 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138853: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:52:36 AM

[up] Yes, it's also on your interest to take more than you give to society, to be a social parasite, to the greatest extent you are capable.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138854: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:53:45 AM

[up][up] Yeah. A smart individualist understands the benefit of enlightened self-interest.

[up] That's pretty much of a conservative myth. Right down to the use of the term "parasite".

edited 16th Sep '16 9:55:02 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138855: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:55:25 AM

[up] It's a myth in the sense that (most) people don't actually behave that way, but from an individualist POV, that's not a rational behavior. People are, by their very nature, driven to embrace he self of group over the self of body, if only to a certain extent.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:57:56 AM by CaptainCapsase

TheWanted Since: Oct, 2013
#138856: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:55:36 AM

A question I'd like to ask from something I've seen people bemoaning here that republicans are being obstructionist and not compromising with Obama, what specific examples could they have compromised on?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138857: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:56:51 AM

Most people don't act like that because it's not a smart individualist thing to do. The wheel that isn't pulling its weight gets removed and replaced with a different wheel. This runs antithetical to an individualist's goals.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:59:36 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138858: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:58:21 AM

Capsace, your cynicism and view of other people being driven purely by rationalism is showing.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138859: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:59:55 AM

[up][up] Only if people get around to it. All in all it produces a sort of prisoner's dilemma, where each actor, rationally, should be expected to parasitize even though society would fall to pieces if everyone acted in that manner. That people don't act like hat is, in my book, a testament to the fact that they consider themselves and others part of the same greater whole.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:00:36 AM by CaptainCapsase

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138860: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:00:08 AM

If anything, an individualist would be motivated to work harder than a collectivist because he wants to minimize his reliance on the collective as a whole. Like, you've taken the conservative propaganda of the Lazy Liberal Welfare Drone and somehow flipped it back on the right. Individualism is much more of a conservative value than a liberal one, after all.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138861: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:01:33 AM

[up] What I'm claiming is that the liberal welfare drone is a myth not because people aren't approximately rational (is mostly rational except in extremis), but because people don't adhere to rational individualism.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:04:25 AM by CaptainCapsase

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138862: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:02:55 AM

@The Wanted: Refusal to hold hearings to replace the late Justice Anton Scalia. Refusal to pass an emergency funding bill to fight the Zika virus in Florida because Planed Parrenthood, who are working in the prevention and treatment efforts, would get part of that funding. Forcing the government shutdown and bringing the country to the brink of default on its debts as leverage to try to cut Obamacare. Etc, etc.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:03:38 AM by Elle

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138863: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:03:52 AM

You're missing the point that most liberals aren't individualist. The Individualist Rock Star isn't the couch potato sleeping his days away on taxpayer money. It's the multibillionaire who pulled himself up by his boot straps, who looks at the country and says, "Y'all are just lazy communist assholes. I BUILT this company, I MADE my fortune, all this money is mine because I EARNED it, because I DESERVE it, ME ME ME ME ME!!!!"

The Welfare Drone myth is a boogie man of collectivism, not individualism.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:04:26 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138864: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:05:29 AM

[up] It's fairly common among my own generation. Which is probably why so many millenials are flocking to Johnson, obnoxiously enough.

Edit: It's a boogie-man of collectivism which assumes all actors adhere to individualist logic.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:06:47 AM by CaptainCapsase

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#138865: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:06:40 AM

@compromise: There was quite a lot of room in both the healthcare and gun debates that wasn't acted upon. Democrats probably would've been more willing to compromise on pipelines if they could push through tougher green energy laws.

@rational actors: I try to help complete strangers whenever possible because I want to live in a world where that is the default and people learn by example. I've been in jams which others have helped me out of for no discernible gain and I very much doubt they would do so if others hadn't done same for them. In other words, next time you see a car stopped on the side of the road, see if you can give them a lift to the gas station.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138866: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:08:14 AM

Millennials aren't half as rational as they pretend to be. Logic and reason are used simultaneously as pissing contests and as ways to excuse behavior.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#138867: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:11:06 AM

[up][up]That is my basic Golden Rule.

I am involved in charity and volunteering and college politics for many reasons:

  • The compulsion to fix what seems dysfunctional. Super OCD.
  • The satisfaction of a good job well done, i.e. feeling good about myself
  • The wish to grant others the good that was granted to me, and spare them the trouble I've seen: a desire to relive my life better though them.
  • The opportunity to boss other people around and have them listen to me and care about my opinion. Ambition?
  • Basking in the admiration of those I help and guide.

Motives for helping others on a personal level, especially close ones, are similarly complicated and impure.

But I think they all add up to me being "a good person". In its barest meaning, someone who doesn't burn bridges, doesn't hurt those who care about him, and whom people like and appreciate.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:12:26 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#138868: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:11:22 AM

[up][up] The simple truth is that millennials are no more rational or irrational than any other age group. People are People.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:12:12 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138869: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:11:28 AM

Capsase I relay don't think you represent a typical person of our generation, you've argued before that none of us do but I'm certisn that you don't.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138870: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:36:36 AM

[up] I'm quite sure I'm very atypical, but I don't think I'm wrong about millenials as a whole being strongly individualistic, at least in the US. If the GOP weren't blatantly racist and fanatically religious, I'd expect them to be doing reqsonably well among our age group.

edited 16th Sep '16 10:37:00 AM by CaptainCapsase

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#138871: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:43:44 AM

A question I'd like to ask from something I've seen people bemoaning here that republicans are being obstructionist and not compromising with Obama, what specific examples could they have compromised on?
For starters, holding a hearing on Garland for SCOTUS. It's one thing if they don't want him, but they have repeatedly and proudly refused to do the most basic fucking job.

Perhaps millennials are more individualistic, even if only in their own minds, because they feel they can't depend on the system?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#138872: Sep 16th 2016 at 10:52:06 AM

And if there is any doubt to the Republicans not holding a hearing for Scala's replacement being anything but obstructionism, ask yourself this: If the President in office were a Republican himself, would this even be an issue? Or would the controversy possibly even go the other way, with Republicans rushing to confirm someone as fast as possible?

edited 16th Sep '16 10:52:36 AM by sgamer82

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#138874: Sep 16th 2016 at 11:28:11 AM

Random question: How would you peg Steven Armstrong's political views (including his hidden social darwinistic ideology) if he were a real-life US politician?

edited 16th Sep '16 11:28:44 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138875: Sep 16th 2016 at 11:43:13 AM

Republican

Oh really when?

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