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Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#138826: Sep 16th 2016 at 8:09:30 AM

[up][up]And he has a decent television outlet, too.

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#138827: Sep 16th 2016 at 8:20:13 AM

If Trump wins, he could end up doing less harm than most think (maybe even improve a thing or two) if his advisors convinced him to cool it with his more........"impulsive" polices. Yeah, unlikely given Trump's hard-headedness. But you never know.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138828: Sep 16th 2016 at 8:28:50 AM

His advisors so far (the ones that have stayed) tend to either agree with him or toady up to him. Maybe a few are in it trying to manipulate him but not in good ways.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#138829: Sep 16th 2016 at 8:44:01 AM

[up]Bah. Well that's no good. If Trump can't be salvageable at the very least, then it'll be a challenging 4-8 years.

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#138830: Sep 16th 2016 at 8:45:49 AM

[up]I suspect that would be putting it mildly.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#138831: Sep 16th 2016 at 8:56:14 AM

[up]Well, there's always the impeachment process if he crosses a line too far. Even if he doesn't get convicted, he could end up getting so entangled in the ensuing circus to the point where he'd have to put his "greatening" of America on hold for a long time just to make room to try and repair his image.

Matues Since: Sep, 2011
#138832: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:05:43 AM

I'm not terribly worried about Trump becoming president, just because he can't even get all the conservatives behind him, much less enough people to win.

If a GOP candidate can't get the unilateral support of their own party, what hope have they with the swing voters?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138833: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:08:49 AM

Trump has apparently finally admitted that Obama was born in the US, or so CNN is saying.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138834: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:09:22 AM

Giving the GOP control over the next few Supreme Court appointments is the big issue at play, domestically. Foreign policy is another area that Trump could fuck up badly, the Executive has a lot of control in that arena.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138835: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:11:13 AM

[up][up] I mentioned that earlier. Though in true Trump fashion, he's also claiming the Clinton campaign started birtherism, and taking credit for getting Obama to release his birth certificates.

@Elle: The people who actually have the know-how to run a country; the hanger ons like Flynn, Giuliani, Pence, and Christie, those people are more worrisome to me than the alt right psychos like Bannon.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:20:24 AM by CaptainCapsase

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138836: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:19:28 AM

It was started by the Clinton equivalent of Bernie Bros though, wasn't it? Still wrong but only half.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138837: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:21:17 AM

[up] Unfortunately yes, which gives Trump the necessary kernel of truth to use this particular spin.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138838: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:22:17 AM

Since we are on the subject of Snowden again, I'd like to point out something: In the event Snowden becomes a liability for Russia, Putin will not kill him (since it would tell future Snowdens that Russia isn't a safe haven, and that hurts intel-gathering), nor necessarily put him in a supermax. Instead, what is likely is that he gets effectively comfy house arrest in a dacha somewhere far away from anything important. He would then be elligible for trade should a Russian agent come into American custody.

That's a really good point. That's probably the reason he's pushing for a pardon. As soon as he runs out of use for Putin, Snowden becomes a bargaining chip. The likelihood of him being returned to the U.S. is steadily rising.

Being morally good because it is beneficial is the entire basis of human civilisation, yes morality is beneficial and pursued on some level out of self interest, but that doesn't make it any less real. You might as well throw all morality to the wind if one embraced your way of thinking.

This. That's pretty much the entire purpose of morality, when you get right down to it. It's a set of rules for how we should conduct ourselves in a way that provides a maximum amount of benefit to the tribe as a whole. At some point, it got hijacked by invisible arbiters of Ultimate Goodness, granting it a holy reverence in society, but even those invisible arbiters tend to just be tribes with different boundary definitions than the nations have.

And then it became obnoxious when it started being used by Moral Egotists wielding purity of intent like a cudgel to try and disqualify other people in order to make themselves look more super-special. I've heard the "Benefitting from a good thing is not TRUE MORALITY! In order to count as a good act, you must gain NOTHING FROM IT!" logic over and over again, and it's always funny because this kind of No True Scotsman approach to morality reeks of people who just do good for that ego-bump that tells them they're better than other people, which is ultimately just a different form of self-interest.

Which in turn is the fundamental danger inherent to morality: turning it into a More-Good-Than-You pissing contest. Letting the Perfect be the enemy of the Good, or even letting the Good be the enemy of the Decent. PROTIP: If you've ever caught yourself being harshly judgmental of another person for not being as Good as you are, you're not as great as you think you are. Those people are essentially the Nice Guys of morality. "I carried your books for you. Am I a candidate for sainthood yet?"

I, personally, am a lot more comfortable with the guy who helps me move my furniture because it means I'll do him a solid down the road than the one who's doing it because he wants recognition and acknowledgement of his moral superiority over the common man. The first guy's just doing what makes a great society: people working together for mutual benefit. The latter's scary as f*ck. Don't Be That Guy.

Sanders told them to vote for her but he did it in a fairly nice way. I just want him to rip into them and tell them they're idiots for not backing the person that actually supports most of his policies and has the ability to make them happen.

Yeah. If Trump wins, then every time he does something awful, I want Sanders on TV going, "To all of my followers who didn't listen to me: this is your f*cking fault."

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
NeoTerraKnight Since: Apr, 2014
#138839: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:22:18 AM

[up][up]You do know he lied about sending his investigators to Hawaii right? Not to mention lied to half of the supporters who believed that Obama was born in Kenya?

edited 16th Sep '16 9:22:55 AM by NeoTerraKnight

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138840: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:24:28 AM

[up]Of course. Preaching to the choir.

The trouble is the kernel of half-truth is enough to make it sound more believable to anyone not paying attention.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:25:37 AM by Elle

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138841: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:25:02 AM

[up][up]That's Trump for you. Truly he is a Teflon Don.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:25:26 AM by CaptainCapsase

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#138842: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:25:36 AM

@ Capasase:

Beyond the urban rural divide there's also a huge youth-older voter divide, and if Trump gets elected, it'll be like Brexit where it happens in spite of opposition by young voters.

So are you saying that young peoples' votes be worth more in Elections, as in one young persons' vote counts as two votes cast by older people?

edited 16th Sep '16 9:25:46 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138843: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:28:21 AM

[up] Of course not. It's just me bemoaning the current state of the electorate where Donald fucking Trump has a 40% chance of becoming President.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:32:43 AM by CaptainCapsase

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#138844: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:36:28 AM

[up]Therefore democracy works, since anyone with enough money or cult of personality can become President.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:38:39 AM by nervmeister

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138845: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:37:39 AM

[up] I know, and if he wins, he wins, and we have to live with that, but for God's sake, this year is depressing.

edited 16th Sep '16 9:38:06 AM by CaptainCapsase

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138846: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:38:29 AM

I, personally, am a lot more comfortable with the guy who helps me move my furniture because it means I'll do him a solid down the road than the one who's doing it because he wants recognition and acknowledgement of his moral superiority over the common man. The first guy's just doing what makes a great society: people working together for mutual benefit. The latter's scary as f*ck. Don't Be That Guy.

Nine times out of ten it's a mix, people help others because it allows them to feel good about themselves and because it can bring benefits later down the line. I helped my ex with the issue she had with the guy she got with after me not so much because I felt she'd later help me out or because I just want to help everyone, but because I feel good when I help people and I enjoy feeling good, I enjoy having that story to tell because it helps me deal with my self confidence issues and feelings of worthlessness, that story is also useful for getting others to like me and be willing to help me.

Now that's all subconscious stuff, honestly when she rang me I just wanted to help because she needed help, but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't some self interest there for my own mental well being and ego.

As for being a candidate for sainthood, look up Saint Silas, is a real thing. tongue

Yeah. If Trump wins, then every time he does something awful, I want Sanders on TV going, "To all of my followers who didn't listen to me: this is your f*cking fault."

I'd note that the angry "what the fuck are you people trying to pull?" line has been tried, remember Sarah Silverman calling Bernie or Bust ridicules at the DNC?

edited 16th Sep '16 9:39:13 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138847: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:41:11 AM

When it comes to helping people, I just do it because it's nice. They need help, I am able to provide help, therefore I shall provide help. I don't need a gift or favor, I don't need recognition, I just want to make them happy and make their life easier.

Altruism isn't some big scam. It's just being nice for the sake of being nice.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#138848: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:42:45 AM

[up]So you desire the sense of personal fulfillment then.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#138849: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:45:25 AM

I think what's being stated here is that (almost) no action is ever entirely altruistic in nature, and that that's okay, which I agree with.

It's not that people can't and don't do things for other people just to help out and be nice, but a part of it always comes back to you, even if only as "I feel good when I help others."

edited 16th Sep '16 9:48:15 AM by LSBK

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138850: Sep 16th 2016 at 9:46:13 AM

From a psychological perspective it is about gaining something, sure not consciously but we do things that gain us something, we're nice to people because it's the smart thing to do and because we've been conditional psychologically to enjoy being nice to people.

Thing is that's all okay, there's nothing wrong or scamy about the fact that we get something (even if it's just a warm feeling inside) out of helping others.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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