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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#138701: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:30:20 PM

I saw a tweet from Hillary in my Twitter feed that said that Troomp once did business with Muhammar Gadhaffi. Is that true?

I heard that Ivanka walked out of an interview because it was too negative. Will this affect anything politically?

Do not obey in advance.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138702: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:30:23 PM

[up]X5 If you'd like a full explanation of how the Russian goverment fails to protect certain groups from violence come over to the Russia thread and I will try and come up with one. Yes the US is bad and appalling by western standards but it's (beyond the specific situation of mass shootings) still generally better at protecting at risk groups that the Russian one is.

[up]X4 Being morally good because it is beneficial is the entire basis of human civilisation, yes morality is beneficial and pursued on some level out of self interest, but that doesn't make it any less real. You might as well throw all morality to the wind if one embraced your way of thinking.

edited 15th Sep '16 5:30:51 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#138703: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:31:04 PM

Captain, what you're arguing is the textbook definition of a false equivalence.

New Survey coming this weekend!
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138704: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:31:33 PM

And I say that's a load of crap. [nja]

Wow that was late. Everyone else summed it up better than I.

edited 15th Sep '16 5:32:40 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#138705: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:32:30 PM

[up]You're right about that, but that still doesn't excuse why our leaders are doing nothing to solve our own problems. If we want to really show we're better than them, let's show them that we aren't politically polarized and do something the majority of Americans want to do.

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#138706: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:33:55 PM

@Beary

Maybe she was referring to this horrifying piece?

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138707: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:33:59 PM

@Silasw: And what's wrong about that? Recognizing that morality is a construct, and that all behaviors are merely a product of circumstance is, in my eyes a sign of great emotional maturity, since with that realization comes the rejection of hatred, perhaps one of the most counterproductive emotional responses humans are capable of.

edited 15th Sep '16 5:34:13 PM by CaptainCapsase

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138708: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:36:00 PM

Some of our leaders are attempting to. Many democrats are calling for stricter gun control, an end to police brutality, etc.

Republicans are standing in the way, but our government isn't some entity. It's a swarm of people arguing over what to do.

@Capsace: Your whole "morality doesn't really exist" thing is really getting old. Not everyone is as cynical as you are, and a lot of us do good things because it's the right thing to do. Don't apply your lack of altruism to everyone else.

edited 15th Sep '16 5:37:48 PM by smokeycut

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138709: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:36:31 PM

On the contrary, I can't think of anything more immature than writing off morality and principles as happenstance. They are the defining human trait.

Oh really when?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#138710: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:36:52 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]You're kind of preaching to the choir here. Everyone in this thread would like it if the gun nuts would just shut up and let us institute some intelligent reforms.

edited 15th Sep '16 5:37:10 PM by Kostya

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138711: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:37:40 PM

Morality being a human construct doesn't make it any less real, my bed is a human construct, I can still sit on it.

I have no issue recognising that morality and many other things are human constructs, acting as if that invalidates their existence or importance however is not a sign of maturity, it's a sight of nihilistic hipsterism, that or gazing to long into the abyss of a philosophy degree (possibly both).

edited 15th Sep '16 5:39:28 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#138712: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:37:50 PM

You're right about that, but that still doesn't excuse why our leaders are doing nothing to solve our own problems. If we want to really show we're better than them, let's show them that we aren't politically polarized and do something the majority of Americans want to do.

You're basically Preaching to the Choir. You can say both "We can and should be better" and "We're observably better than some other places".

edited 15th Sep '16 5:38:58 PM by LSBK

Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#138713: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:40:44 PM

[up]Honestly? I just wanted to find some middle ground on this whole thing.

As for confirmation bias, everyone has invoked this at some point in political discussions, including you.

edited 15th Sep '16 5:43:01 PM by Mario1995

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138714: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:40:59 PM

@Silasw: I personally believe that actions should be driven by the collective good of the human species, in the sense of maximizing long term survival, which is the closest thing there is to a "purpose" to life. From my view, the monopoly on global power the US holds is immensely harmful to the rest of the world much in the same way. A (stable) multipolar arrangement would be, in my eyes, greatly preferable. Hence my antipathy for the United States.

@Tactical: Noting that, were their fortunes reversed (validated by the behavior of the US on the rare occasions it finds the tables turned on it, even on a small scale), Russia or China would use their dominant global position in a manner not particularly different from the United States and the United States would behave in a manner not unlike modern day Russia or China isn't a false equivalence. It's accepting the common behavior trends of all humans.

edited 15th Sep '16 5:43:09 PM by CaptainCapsase

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#138715: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:42:51 PM

And here's the problem with that. WHO determines what's the collective good of the human species? It would be run by people with agendas...and agendas change.

New Survey coming this weekend!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138716: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:44:19 PM

[up] Ideally, the aggregate decision-making of the entire human species, networked together through technology. That's something that's a very long way off however, and in the short term, rule of (international) law is what I'd prefer.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138717: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:45:38 PM

Oh. My God. Please do not turn this into another argument on transhumanism. I'd rather burn myself alive than be part of some collective hive mind.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138718: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:46:07 PM

I also like being me.

Oh really when?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138719: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:46:13 PM

Yet you never advocate for a stable multipolar world, or even a unipolar world under say the UN, you advocate for a Cold War style unstable multipolar world, particularly one where the US has less power and worse regimes (by your own measure of ensuring human survival as a species) has more power and influence.

Where your call for India to have more influence and power? Where's the push to give Brazil a permanent seat at the Security Council? Where the push for the EU to act as a counter ballence to US over indulgence and recklessness? Where the advocation for the African Union to step up and take a leading roll in Africa so that the US can relax its roll?

No, it's just how Russia and China should be allowed to grow in power and how the US is just as bad as them.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138720: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:48:12 PM

A stable multipolar world has to include Russia and China for better or worse, they're too big both geographically and population wise not to be part of that order, and as long as the US remains an existential threat to them, there's really no hope of a stable balance of power being achieved.

I am very much in favor of the EU holding together, though conventional geopolitical wisdom seems to suggest its an untenable arrangement, doomed to break apart into smaller regional blocks. I am also very much in favor of a more globally prominent India.

edited 15th Sep '16 5:53:39 PM by CaptainCapsase

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#138721: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:48:35 PM

Also, we have historical precedent for how multipolar world works...turns out, pretty fucking shitty.

New Survey coming this weekend!
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138722: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:50:08 PM

[up] That was prior to the Sword of Damocles that is nuclear weapons+the sheer mind boggling cost of industrialized wars.

@Rational: Oh yeah, plus global economic ties, thanks. [nja]

edited 15th Sep '16 5:51:22 PM by CaptainCapsase

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#138723: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:50:40 PM

As for confirmation bias, everyone has invoked this at some point in political discussions, including you.

Who brought up confirmation bias? But, yes, everyone does that, I'm not sure what your point is.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138724: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:50:49 PM

[up][up][up]Granted, those eras didn't have nuclear deterrence and globalization in play.

Partial [nja]

edited 15th Sep '16 5:51:17 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Mario1995 The Dishonorable from Atlanta Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
The Dishonorable
#138725: Sep 15th 2016 at 5:52:44 PM

[up][up]Your "preaching to the choir" page linked to confirmation bias, so...yeah. Just went with that.

"The devil's got all the good gear. What's God got? The Inspiral Carpets and nuns. Fuck that." - Liam Gallagher

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