TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#138576: Sep 14th 2016 at 6:55:18 AM

The NSA has been actively violating our Constitutional rights by reading our e-mails and listening in on our phone calls like 1984, and somehow Snowden is the Big Bad?
If you're going to get hysterical about things, at least get your facts right. The NSA was caught looking through metadata — that is, information about calls, not the calls themselves. They could see things like who you were calling and when, but not the content of the calls themselves. They could see that Alice called Bob at 6:39 PM on Tuesday and the call lasted for 34 seconds, but they have no idea if the conversation that happened was "Hey, we're out of beer, could you pick up a six pack on your way home?" or "Da, comrade, Operation Evil Scheme is go. Death to America!".

Pretty much everything else I could say about Snowden has already been said, so I'll avoid beating that dead horse.

@ Krieger — if you're going to quote the entirety of an article that long, 1) a tldr would be appreciated, and 2) put it in a folder so people don't have to scroll down a dozen screen-lengths to get past it.

That's.... decidedly not better.
It's better in that they're not actually firing him for failing to kill someone. They wanted him gone already, they just used this incident as an excuse.

It's still bad that they're able to use "didn't kill someone who was trying to commit suicide by cop and was no actual danger to anyone" as an excuse, though.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#138577: Sep 14th 2016 at 6:56:04 AM

Basically every state's an at-will state, isn't it?

The question is where are those police unions when they could actually do some damn good?

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#138578: Sep 14th 2016 at 7:09:59 AM

I've only ever heard of police unions for very large departments, e.g., major cities.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#138579: Sep 14th 2016 at 7:12:32 AM

put it in a folder
Wait, you can do that in a post?
every state's an at-will state
Not every, I think it's half. But in this case, as a probationarynote  officer, he could literally be fired because his lieutenant didn't like the way he ate his lunch, and he has no legal recourse. The police department is getting tons of bad press from this - but he's still unemployed and could still be effectively blackballed because he was fired rather than resigned. No other law enforcement in the areanote  is going to hire him, even though he sure seems like a good cop, because that will complicate matter dealing with his former department. Any offers he's going to get from another law agency will almost certainly require him to move.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#138580: Sep 14th 2016 at 7:52:54 AM

With Clinton, I think Trevor Noah put it pretty well.

"Now, putting your politics aside, this is a disturbing video to watch. Because Hillary doesn't look fine. It looks like she's just had brunch with Bill Cosby. And now, only because this video came out, the Clinton campaign had to admit that something really was going on... You see, this is the problem with the Clintons. It's not the thing that they do that gets them, it's the way they try and cover them up."

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#138581: Sep 14th 2016 at 8:42:29 AM

As Rachel Maddow said last week (paraphrased): People get sick. Politicians get sick. Some of our most famous Presidents have been sick in office and have still been successful. The desire to obsessively pore over health records is a relatively recent one and can become a distraction in and of itself.

She showed clips of past politicians falling ill as well as people fainting at public events. It is a thing that happens. Only because the media have publicized the Breitbart "Clinton health conspiracy" is this even an issue worthy of debate.

Stop letting them set your damn agenda. I have stopped watching Trevor Noah because of this, and wince every time Colbert does it.

edited 14th Sep '16 8:44:26 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#138582: Sep 14th 2016 at 8:43:03 AM

[up][up][up]He's considering driving trucks as an alternative. Granted that doesn't require you to pack your bags, but you're still gonna be on the road for a long time.

edited 14th Sep '16 8:57:00 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#138583: Sep 14th 2016 at 8:45:05 AM

Have y'all seen this video? A police officer was fired from his job for refusing to shoot a man who was trying to commit Suicide by Cop.

Instead he tried to talk the suicidal man down and de-escalate the situation. Then backup arrived, and one of the approaching officers shot the suicidal man in the back of the head. The man's gun turned out to be empty. The police officer who refused to execute an American Citizen was fired.

... Someone please explain to me why the police department believes that this officer's actions were wrong.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138585: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:15:15 AM

Presumably, the logic behind it was that he disobeyed an order. Still, I side with the policeman. He should be receiving a medal for risking his own life to safe another. Suicidal people are desperate, and they need someone that talks to them.

It seems like his bosses have other priorities.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#138586: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:15:45 AM

@Marq:

Realistically? Because it violated protocol. That is, specific exact rules for handling specific situations.

Still, this is an example of "letter of the law" trumping "spirit of the law".

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#138587: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:29:27 AM

If the letter of the law actively mandates "gun down a mentally ill man when another alternative exists" then I'd say there are problems with that.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#138588: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:31:57 AM

[up][up]

It's less a violation of protocol and more (ostensibly) "You put fellow officers at risk by not neutralizing an apparent threat." Of course, that's overlooking the fact that he was in the process of neutralizing it when backup came in - it's like yelling at someone in the bomb squad for defusing a bomb rather than just doing the "contained detonation". Both are feasible courses of action, but one carries a higher inherent risk with a greater payoff if successful.

And Fighteer, the fact is that the last point Trevor Noah made was right on the mark - the problem with the Clinton campaign (and possibly the Clintons in general) is that they have a reputation of covering even the most innocuous things up. Even if it's for a sound reason, it makes shit hit the fan even harder when evidence to the contrary shows up. The show went so far as to (albeit jokingly) propose the best solution - play up the fact that she knew she had pneumonia but decided to attend the 9/11 memorial event regardless. Except for her most ardent detractors, it'd play up both her patriotism and her commitment to the American people, instead of trying to play off the illness and near-collapse as Nothing To See Here.

edited 14th Sep '16 9:34:50 AM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#138589: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:34:54 AM

"Fail to mention" does not equal "cover up". And her illness, all things considered, is not that serious. The problem, if anything, was her refusal to care for herself while campaigning, an issue that she's far from the first to suffer from.

edited 14th Sep '16 9:36:27 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138590: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:42:52 AM

Anything potentially life threatening is serious in my book, and while, to the best of our knowledge, Clinton seems to be on the road to recovery, it would've been much better for optics had this been disclosed prior to her collapsing.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#138591: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:45:19 AM

[up]

Eh, I'd draw the line at mentioning it before it became problematic, but just coming out and saying "Sorry, I've been dealing with pneumonia since the start of the weekend, but I'm feeling much better now, thank you." rather than leaving out the first portion entirely would have made her seem more trustworthy.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#138592: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:53:01 AM

[up] It might have been a better move, yes, but the only reason it could possibly make her seem "untrustworthy" is the existing narrative about that.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138593: Sep 14th 2016 at 9:53:11 AM

The presidency of the most powerful nation in the world is at stake. It would be naive to think that candidates won't risk lying. All candidates do.

Trump has secrets he is hiding too. He is just better at deflecting the attention than Hilary's team. One liner of his and he can get out of most situations. I'll give it to Trump that he is the best at theatrics.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#138594: Sep 14th 2016 at 10:06:21 AM

Wait, you can do that in a post?
Yup. [[folder:This is the Folder Title]]This is the text in the folder[[/folder]] gets you
    This is the Folder Title 
This is the text in the folder

To be fair, you couldn't always do this, but it's been around since the last major site revamp, at least.

edited 14th Sep '16 10:06:55 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#138595: Sep 14th 2016 at 10:09:35 AM

Just for luck, I'm going to start referring to Hillary as "President Clinton" from here on out. It'll be a prayer every time I mention her name.

edited 14th Sep '16 10:10:02 AM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#138596: Sep 14th 2016 at 10:15:44 AM

Again, pnuemonia actually killed one of our presidents. It is a serious illness especially for someone as old as Clinton is. After the stumble became national news, Clinton or one of her supporters should have just been upfront about it in exactly the way ironball suggested. While people didn't need to know before the stumble that Clinton had pnuemonia, once the stumble happened then it's something that needed to be addressed. In addition, it is actually hard to criticize the media for focusing on Clinton stumbling when Gerald Ford slipped on the stairs in front of Air Force One one time and became known for clumsiness because of that one incident.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#138597: Sep 14th 2016 at 10:20:51 AM

Yeah, it killed a president in the 1800s who who got like no treatment and exasperated his own condition. She's likely getting the best treatment possible and they probably caught it early. The situations aren't at all the same.

And they have addressed it so I'm not really sure what the problem is. That she didn't go "sorry everybody, I might have a little pneumonia." the second it happened?

edited 14th Sep '16 10:21:55 AM by LSBK

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#138598: Sep 14th 2016 at 10:26:30 AM

And George Washington was not much younger than her when he got pneumonia in the 1700's and he pulled through just fine.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#138599: Sep 14th 2016 at 10:35:31 AM

And they have addressed it so I'm not really sure what the problem is. That she didn't go "sorry everybody, I might have a little pneumonia." the second it happened?
That's what people are saying they wanted from her, essentially, yes. Of course, if she had made such an announcement, people would be jumping all over her for trying to garner sympathy with such a cheap "I'm just a sick old lady" ploy, or insisting that she's obviously in such poor health that pneumonia is just a cover up for whatever far more serious problem she really has.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#138600: Sep 14th 2016 at 10:36:13 AM

And Gerald Ford fell down a lot!

... Is it too late to get Ford's ghost to run for the Republicans instead? tongue

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Total posts: 417,856
Top