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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138526: Sep 13th 2016 at 8:50:38 PM

Every country was already aware they were being spied. It's no secret the C.I.A among other agencies are getting information below our noses. They all spy to some extent.

Snowden only put in the spotlight a truth we all were aware of.

edited 13th Sep '16 8:52:24 PM by Nightlikeday

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138527: Sep 13th 2016 at 8:52:42 PM

Yes but they don't have the names and locations of every spy we have in Moscow. They don't have our operations playbook.

They do now though that Snowdens given it to them.

Oh really when?
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138528: Sep 13th 2016 at 8:54:40 PM

[up][up]...I wasn't aware of it. No joke. Yes, I knew that many countries the world over spied on their citizens, but I thought that maybe, just maybe, our beloved USA was a bit different. Obviously, I was wrong. Although seeing as I already learned the American Dream (TM) was a sham long before then, I shouldn't have been surprised.tongue

edited 13th Sep '16 8:55:17 PM by kkhohoho

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#138529: Sep 13th 2016 at 8:55:22 PM

[up][up][up][up]And even I would argue that he should have known that.

The shit the Russians have been pulling in this election were direct result of his data releases.
I would like to see proof of that. I was unaware any direct connection had been established.

edited 13th Sep '16 8:59:08 PM by Eschaton

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#138530: Sep 13th 2016 at 8:56:16 PM

Guy is a hero.

How so? That's not coming from someone with the point of view of "he's a traitor and he needs to executed/imprisoned for life" that's coming from the someone who legitimately wonders why what he did is heroic?

Did anything change for the better? Did he actually uncover or reveal anything that people didn't already assume was happening?

edited 13th Sep '16 8:58:30 PM by LSBK

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138531: Sep 13th 2016 at 8:58:55 PM

The problem isn't that he exposed that spying happens, the problem is that he compromised agents in the field.

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#138532: Sep 13th 2016 at 8:59:11 PM

He didn't have to give our secrets to the Russians but he did. He now has a cushy office in the Kremlin.

You do realize he intended to travel further but got stuck in Russia because the US revoked his passport?

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138533: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:00:42 PM

[up][up][up]My theater teacher would tell you that the NSA committed outright criminal acts that could potentially turn our country into 1984, and that Snowden is a savior for releasing this information to the public. And again, if I'm any example, many people weren't already aware of this, (of the spying, not 'outright criminal acts that could potentially turn our country into 1984', which is admittedly rather subjective,) so I guess he accomplished that much at least.

edited 13th Sep '16 9:02:37 PM by kkhohoho

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138534: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:06:24 PM

You do realize he intended to travel further but got stuck in Russia because the US revoked his passport?

I don't believe it. When it comes to the Russians and intelligence communities there aren't coincidences that big. This dude has a shit ton of information on his person and the just so happens to "get stuck" there? Right after leaking all that compromising data? And I guess the Russians just gave him that cushy office out of the goodness of their heart?

Oh really when?
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#138535: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:07:41 PM

What Russia has been doing in regards to the election is just hacking and propaganda. Russia hacks information that harms the US and US interests and then revealed them via their propaganda arms. It's got nothing to do with Snowden because a good intelligence agency would make any information he knows outdated when he started revealing the NSA stuff, and his knowledge should definitely be outdated at this point. Also a good intelligence agency would make very high level "Oh Shit" kind of stuff on a need-to-know basis.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#138536: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:08:10 PM

Guys do we have to debate this AGAIN? Nobody's mind is going to be changed here.

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#138537: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:11:03 PM

@garcon: Do you have any proof of their prior collaboration, or is it just your pet conspiracy theory?

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#138538: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:11:44 PM

I would like to see proof of that. I was unaware any direct connection had been established.

Maybe not entirely directly but through Snowden the Russians realized they could directly impact the US democratic process by releasing information at opportunistic moments.

Inter arma enim silent leges
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138539: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:14:17 PM

[up][up]At the very least Snowden knew what he doing when he went to Russia. He had no intention of leaving once he got there. That was his end game all along.

edited 13th Sep '16 9:14:38 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138540: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:17:19 PM

[up]And you know this for a fact because...?

edited 13th Sep '16 9:18:09 PM by kkhohoho

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#138541: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:17:22 PM

Le Garcon, believe what you want. There's no use arguing with you. History will ultimately judge Snowden.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#138542: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:20:53 PM

No it wasn't. The Austrians even forced the Bolivian president's plane to land because it was believed he smuggled Snowden out. Snowden couldn't travel further because the US revoked his passport. The Russians just took the opportunity and the good press it would give them. No conspiracy needed.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138543: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:29:38 PM

Compared to Manning and especially Assange, Snowden is sympathetic and probably had decent intentions. However, he also certainly gave sensitive information to a hostile foreign power and I can't see how that should go unpunished.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#138544: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:35:19 PM

[up] Agreed. He's still blatantly a traitor no matter how you slice it.

There is more context to that, and that's important on how the punishment should be, as he's not just a normal traitor. It's more complicated than that.

Shadow?
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#138545: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:41:12 PM

What's this accusation about Snowden doxxing agents? I thought that was what Manning did...

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#138546: Sep 13th 2016 at 9:49:20 PM

Snowden's a traitor (giving info to Russia) under a duress that the United States is complicit in causing. This is the sort of situation that a pardon was designed for.

(Well, okay. This is the situation that a full investigation of the NSA by a neutral power with overwhelming force, and a coerced pardon of Snowden by same overwhelming force, would be ideal for. Now, back in the real world...)

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#138547: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:06:49 PM

No, that's not true. He was giving information to them to avoid facing consequences for breaking the law. That's far from the same thing.

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#138548: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:18:02 PM

Snowden was in fact advised to stay in Russia. By one Julian Assange. In other words, Garcon is correct.

If Snowden had been more street smart about the entire thing he might have saved himself a lot of trouble and avoided suspicions of being compromised by non-American intelligence agencies. But he wasn't.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#138549: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:27:32 PM

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly did Manning do that was so horrible?

Oh God! Natural light!
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#138550: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:29:29 PM

Snowden chose to be Russia's useful idiot. I'm not saying that the NSA programs were right or constitutional, but what he did was treason and should be prosecuted.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

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