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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138451: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:18:46 AM

Clinton's dying before the elections is highly unlikely.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#138452: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:19:41 AM

Higher education does not equal being more skeptical of information.

uhhhh........

I'm actually pretty certain there's a strong positive correlation between education level and tendency to be politically progressive...

Correlation does not equal causation, of course, but I'm fairly certain the correlation is there.

the degree is only paper, of course, but the exercise of having attended meetings and lectures and debates is incredibly valuable, and somewhat difficult (though far from impossible) to replicate outside of a school environment.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#138453: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:23:10 AM

"Do you expect me to make you sick?"

"No Mr Influenza I expect you to die"

Inter arma enim silent leges
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138454: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:23:21 AM

@Capsase- So what I'm seeing is that people will post about some decision by the Clinton campaign and you will invariably post "this is why that will inevitably horribly backfire", because you're really worried about her losing and not just waiting to say "I told you so". And I guess for some reason whenever someone posts about Clinton recovering, you have the same impulse to take a pessimistic view about her health. Because everything about Clinton has to be viewed in a negative light, including her mortality.

Guess the Dems should have chosen the young and vibrant Sanders, right?

edited 13th Sep '16 10:26:40 AM by Hodor2

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138455: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:27:21 AM

He's worried that her being sick this close to the debates may translate into poor debate performance. I don't think that's completely irrational. It's not a personal reflection on her, it's a worry that this random event will be a problem in an election where we'd rather she have as much of a lead as possible.

edited 13th Sep '16 10:29:59 AM by Elle

Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138456: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:27:58 AM

College education does have its value. There is a reason we shouldn't trust layman M.D or take the words of armchair psychologists with a grain of salt.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138457: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:29:18 AM

[up][up]I guess. As it is, he seems pretty certain that Trump will win the debates to begin with. Not sure how posting how as an older person she likely has the potentially fatal strain of pneumonia fits into that though.

It's not irrational to worry about that issue, and I'm sure it's in the mind of Clinton and her campaign as well as people in this thread. But like Capsase seems to consider it his job to be a naysay about everything Clinton related.

edited 13th Sep '16 10:30:57 AM by Hodor2

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138458: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:29:40 AM

[up][up][up]True, though this type of sickness typically passes in a week or two with proper treatment.

edited 13th Sep '16 10:30:23 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138459: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:29:56 AM

I never said it doesn't have value. I said that Capsace's attempt to say "well you guys are different. You're college educated." backfired because many of us aren't. He's consistently shown a belief that college educated people are the only ones who aren't blindly following the news, which is incredibly insulting.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#138460: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:30:08 AM

No, pneumonia is a serious infection especially for someone who is as old as Clinton is. The reason why she won't die from it is because it was caught in time and she has the best medical care that a government could buy. We are far from the era where a President could die from pneumonia thirty days after assuming office. In addition, it could actually affect Clinton during the debates given that pneumonia could last up to a month while being treated.

edited 13th Sep '16 10:30:59 AM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138461: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:32:48 AM

I wasn't contradicting you, Smokeycut. I just gave my opinion on the topic at hand.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138462: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:33:57 AM

[up][up][up][up]It should and I hope so but the campaign trail doesn't stop for illness and energy for recovery is going to be at a premium.

I don't think anyone here thinks it's likely it will be fatal to her, but it's not a 0% chance either. Not cause to panic but not entirely worth discounting completely.

edited 13th Sep '16 10:36:40 AM by Elle

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138463: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:36:05 AM

As discussing Pepe the Frog is as much a product of the internet age as it is the bigotry present in Trump's supporters, it's entirely possible that future presidential candidates will also have pages on their websites discussing memes that pop up in political discourse. So I don't think it's really a ridiculous or bad thing to have one page that discusses the imagery being used here. If anything is ridiculous, it's that the alt right has made it necessary to discuss the imagery they're using so the wider audience can understand the intended message.

This. The purpose of dogwhistles is to allow you to get horrible messages through to your followers without the general public catching on. This isn't just "Hillary Clinton discusses some meme." This is Hillary picking up one of the dogwhistles in Trump's campaign and going, "Hey! Hey, everyone! Do you know what this is? Because you probably need to!"

Dissecting the GOP's dogwhistles in public for everyone to see is something that needs to happen in every campaign, really. Every political campaign should have at least someone going, "Hey guys, when Bob Candidateperson said 'let's barbecue some fish', he was showing solidarity to the Hate All Foreigners organization. That's their motto. The 'fish' are Cuban refugees. Thought you should know."

That should seriously be a political campaign role. The dogwhistle translator.

I never said it doesn't have value. I said that Capsace's attempt to say "well you guys are different. You're college educated." backfired because many of us aren't. He's consistently shown a belief that college educated people are the only ones who aren't blindly following the news, which is incredibly insulting.

Hell, I'm a high school dropout. I'm about as uneducated ig'nant white trash as you can get.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138464: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:49:47 AM

@Hodor: A counterperspective is an extremely important part to any debate. If me an a few other people weren't taking this perspective, this thread would just be continuous "Trump bad, Clinton good." unless an actual Trump supporter comes here and manages to not get banned.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138465: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:51:43 AM

I guess. Pretty predictable though. And again, do you really feel that it's necessary to take that approach to Clinton's health? Since you obviously don't really care, except to the extent you'd prefer anyone rather than Trump.

edited 13th Sep '16 10:52:39 AM by Hodor2

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138466: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:52:27 AM

[up] Yes, because it's important for people to at least be emotionally prepared should the worst come to pass.

Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138467: Sep 13th 2016 at 10:52:37 AM

I'm having a hard time picturing Trump's racist policies as "good." This isn't about being "balance." Discrimination and xenophobia are bad. No amount of neutrality can justify those.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138468: Sep 13th 2016 at 11:04:32 AM

@Hodor: I'm actually quite concerned about the prospect of Trump winning. Pointing out what I perceive as potential vulnerabilities of Clinton as a candidate is one method of articulating that anxiety.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#138469: Sep 13th 2016 at 11:07:09 AM

I don't think it's even a suggestion that anything about Trump/Republicans is good. The whole reason for the original "devil's advocate" (the guy arguing the dissenting view of the Catholic Church when considering someone for sainthood) was to raise counterarguments that, by defending against them, the case for sainthood could be made stronger.

I do think there is a bias among some people here to always assume the best of Clinton (and jump to the conclusion that anyone critical of her either implicitly supports Trump, Sanders or a third party/no confidence vote). I'm not proposing that I think there's a legitimate case but to me she does have a tendency to speak in weasel words (not as much as Trump but noticeably so) and stretch (fairly minor) facts and I still maintain the same baseline distrust I have of any politician. I'm willing to try trusting her but not blindly.

edited 13th Sep '16 11:11:44 AM by Elle

Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138470: Sep 13th 2016 at 11:11:47 AM

The timing of her pneumonia has been harsher to her image than the illness itself. We're all discussing this because a debate is coming and she had her symptoms at 9/11 commemoration.

I doubt she is going to die. I'm only worried that she might not be ready for the debate. Time will tell.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138471: Sep 13th 2016 at 11:20:19 AM

[up] I'm not worried about her dying, but the possibility remains until she recovers, and the debate issue is well within the realm of plausibility.

Now, as far as Hodor asserting I think Trump would win the debates even without Clinton being ill during them, I wouldn't say that as much as I have absolutely no idea what's going to happen during the debates, and the uncertainty worries me deeply. Trump is very good at a certain type of "debate" (browbeating), and if the moderators let him (or if the debate organizers actually cave to his ridiculous requests on toning down the moderation), he can and will monopolize the screen time he's given.

A properly conducted debate with good moderation is something that would definitely favor Clinton, but I'm not confident that will actually happen, hence my concern about the debates.

edited 13th Sep '16 11:23:06 AM by CaptainCapsase

Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138472: Sep 13th 2016 at 11:27:58 AM

Has Trump really shown any skills at debating?

I mean, sure he is great at one-liners, and making his opponents look bad. But when it comes to actual arguments, without any clown-reality-tv antics, he is far below Clinton.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#138473: Sep 13th 2016 at 11:32:17 AM

I do think there is a bias among some people here to always assume the best of Clinton (and jump to the conclusion that anyone critical of her either implicitly supports Trump, Sanders or a third party/no confidence vote).

It is sorta true, even if it's not entirely deliberate, that a word against Hillary is a word in favor of Trump/Stein/Johnson/etc. The issue is that nothing occurs in a vacuum. Every debate, every philosophy, every event, is surrounded by context and that context colors its aims and consequences. I am perfectly willing to be critical of Hillary's positions, platforms, and decisions just as soon as she is safely in the White House, where impressionable young lurkers aren't going to see "Hillary is infinitely better than Trump BUT she has XYZ problem" and go "You're right, she DOES have XYZ problem. Well, I'm off to vote Trump!"

Hillary is flawed, but she's also currently in direct competition with someone who is much worse. Picking her apart right now just gives her opponents fuel to pull votes away from her. Look to the people who are freaking out over TPP so hard that they'd rather see Trump build concentration camps for minorities, abandon our allies to Russian takeover, and shoot nukes at anybody who looks at him funny than even entertain the thought of Hillary signing it - even though she's already spoken out against it! They are a perfect example of the fact that everything is a priority to someone.

Now is not a good time for the topic, "Hillary is the worst thing since Satan, true/false?" because right now, it's a topic that serves the purpose of driving voters to Trump rather than simply being a fair discussion of her. Picking her apart and debating her pros and cons would be a great discussion to have just as soon as we can be reasonably assured that millions of minorities aren't going to die for it.

edited 13th Sep '16 11:34:39 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#138474: Sep 13th 2016 at 11:34:00 AM

[up]Marry me

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#138475: Sep 13th 2016 at 11:41:47 AM

you need some evidence that it also happens in reverse: Clinton supporters viewing Trump's policies favorably when told they are Clinton's.
I admit to not having evidence, but I certainly would find it believable. Not everyone, of course, but if the media took some non-racist policy examples that Trump supports, and said Clinton was for them? I'd wager they could find more than a few people who would agree.
Libertarians are minarchist, not anarchist
Frankly that depends on the libertarian. Quite a few I've met have seemed perfectly content with the idea of anarchy, as if abolishing the government in a day wouldn't cause the country to collapse.
Only if you assume that Democrats are as ignorant and blindly loyal as Republicans are, which Democrats are not.
I'd wager that some are. Or we can keep dickering over how many fill the left-wing basket of less-deplorables. tongue
That should seriously be a political campaign role. The dogwhistle translator.
Tobias, you should submit a resume to the Clinton campaign for this role. And point to this forum for your experience on the job. grin
"Hillary is the worst thing since Satan, true/false?"
... I really want to change my sig to this now. *insert trollface*

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

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