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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138276: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:29:27 AM

A part of it is wired on biology, I think. People want their leaders to be strong, so they might protect them when there is danger.

Yes, it is a bit irrational. Specially, if you consider that perfect health isn't really necessary for a desk leadership position. Blame evolution.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#138277: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:29:59 AM

If a candidate dies mid-election, their vice-president will take their place. That being said, Clinton dying mid-general election would almost certainly guarantee a Trump win because of the sheer logistics of changing over from Hillary Clinton to Tim Kaine. For example, I don't think the ballet can be changed at this point, so Clinton and Trump are going to be on it no matter their health.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#138278: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:42:24 AM

@Jasaiga: decouple from the internet and television for a bit. Go for a walk, hit the beach or whatever helps you relax. The world ain't resting on your shoulders.

@pneumonia: I'm not too worried that it'll effect her debate performance: any minimum wage worker worth their collar can tell you a dozen ways to push through something and look like you give a shit and only half of them include illegal substances. I am concerned about her overall health though. Pushing through the debates doesn't mean much if she ends up in the hospital a day later.

In theory she can probably take it easy for the next little bit anyways. They've essentially been running out the clock since the convention and taking a few days off won't hurt her numbers. Toss Kaine onto whatever photo ops she was supposed to attend and nobody would probably notice.

@trump momentum: That he's essentially stalled out is interesting. Generally you see a tightening of the numbers around this time that gets very close to 50/50 near election day and the fact that he's not moving means he may have hit his limit.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138279: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:46:27 AM

I actually think a Clinton death would guarantee a win for the democrats, the sympathy vote would be huge and the anti-Clinton voters might stay at home confident that they'd done their job by killing Clinton via stress.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138280: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:57:48 AM

I concur with thatguythere47, Jasaiga. Every election everyone worries too much about the results.

Even if the worst comes to happen, there are balances and checks. The government isn't just one man. You would be surprised about how much will remain the same.

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138281: Sep 12th 2016 at 10:58:31 AM

When has that ever happened?

Oh really when?
Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138282: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:07:42 AM

Real change doesn't come from just one person:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-12-28/obama-and-the-limits-of-executive-power

edited 12th Sep '16 11:08:14 AM by Nightlikeday

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138283: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:07:42 AM

Look at how much damage the Executive did under Bush with regards to foreign policy. Now if you consider that Trump is a few orders of magnitude worse on that front alone, and the GOP has completely lost its rocker since 08...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138284: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:09:43 AM

Out of curiosity, How many Trump supporters are in this thread?

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138285: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:10:54 AM

Properly supporting Trump involves holding a lot of views that break the rules of the site.

Usually relating to white supremacy and so on.

Oh really when?
randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#138286: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:14:24 AM

Guys, you seriously need to stop acting like the sky is falling. The amount of panicking on here would make a support board for compulsive worriers tell you to calm down. Even if Trump becomes president - which I know will not happen - it won't be like the gates of Hell opened up. He'd be a godawful president, but luckily that's why we have two other branches of government as well to keep him in check. There won't be death squads, no massive deportation of legal immigrants, no Republican militias roaming the streets putting guns to people's' heads. And before you say I'm strawmanning, these are things I've actually seen people say here that they're worried about, so it's not like I'm pulling these fears out of thin air.

That being said, I do understand why people are worried. I'm not trying to say your fears are irrational, but rather that they may be a bit blown out of proportion. Also I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to get everyone to think logically and without fear dominating their thought processes.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:17:26 AM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138287: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:17:00 AM

Who currently owns Congress and who gets to pick future SCOTUS judges?

Trump and Republicans. Those checks and balances don't mean shit if all three branches are in his pocket.

Oh really when?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#138288: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:17:49 AM

If he wins and gets a friendly House and Senate, he'll have at least two years to dismantle Obamacare, entitlement programs, civil rights programs, environmental programs, support for LGBT individuals, etc. He'll appoint an arch-conservative to the Supreme Court who will help all of these things stick.

This isn't without precedent. When nativist reactionaries take power, they wield it like a machete to slash and burn government and make it as hard as possible for themselves to be replaced, or for the damage they've done to be repaired.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:18:06 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138289: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:24:48 AM

And of course there'd be vigilantes and domestic terror groups like the Oathkeepers working effectively unhindered.

Oh really when?
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#138290: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:25:07 AM

[up][up]

If he wins and gets a friendly House and Senate, he'll have at least two years to dismantle Obamacare, entitlement programs, civil rights programs, environmental programs, support for LGBT individuals, etc. He'll appoint an arch-conservative to the Supreme Court who will help all of these things stick.

The Constitution? Or at least suspend it?

[up] And Left-wing domestic terrorist groups as well?

edited 12th Sep '16 11:25:53 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138291: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:26:08 AM

Trump will have a compliant Congress. Ryan's already demonstrated a total inability to stand up to Trump on anything of substance. Does anyone really believe he'll suddenly start strongarming Trump into acting like a human being?

It's also worth noting that no American president has ever really tried to break the rules the way Trump has implied he wants to. Even Nixon didn't step this far out of bounds. Whether the American system can survive Trump completely unscathed is a harder question to answer than some suggest, because nobody in a position to do so has ever tried to break it before.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:27:42 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138292: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:27:25 AM

[up][up]We'd probably see a rise from them but the police already give a blind eye to the Oathkeepers and that'd get worse under a Trump presidency.

Oh really when?
randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#138293: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:27:49 AM

True, he would be able to do all those things with a Republican-controlled legislative branch, but there's always the chance that the Democrats win the House this election cycle. If they do then there's no way that stuff makes it through easily, let alone at all.

[down]It's a possibility, they'll win, not that they will.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:30:08 AM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#138294: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:28:15 AM

[up][up][up][up]The Constitution cannot be "suspended", but a friendly SCOTUS will allow him and Congress to get away with stripping out all kinds of laws and regulations that they don't like. The only bastion against it will be the Senate filibuster.

[up] Er, what? Of all the outcomes of this election, a Democratic House of Representatives is the least likely, due to state gerrymandering.

We would survive a Trump Presidency as a nation... probably... but it won't be happy times. And for all of you who talk about Obama's drone strikes and whatnot, Trump would make the military adventurism of the Bush and Reagan eras look like a kindergarten-age child playing with army men in the backyard sandbox.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:31:18 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#138295: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:28:38 AM

but luckily that's why we have two other branches of government as well to keep him in check

The big problem is that Republicans have shown in the past just how willing they are to fuck over their standards when it comes to their own President in office - note how little the Deficit Hawks spoke up when Bush Jr. was racking up the debt. Not to mention that Trump demolished his opponents in the later stages of the Primary, which would speak to their need to pander like hell to their base to avoid getting ousted for someone more ideologically "pure".

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138296: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:30:59 AM

Yeah while checks and ballences exist and Trump is just one man the movement which he represents is about more than just him.

A Trump victory doesn't just mean Trump as president, it means a Republican House and a Republican Senate, and with that we've lost all the checks and ballences beyond the Suprame Court, which will have Trump appointing one judge immediately and probably more soon after.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#138297: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:35:18 AM

Trump will at least have to play by the rules of the current Republican Establishment, which is bad, but only because the Republican Establishment is bad. There is nothing that Trump will do that a stock Republican in this era wouldn't do in the same position. Trump is just louder and lacks decorum. I think that is my problem in regards to the treatment of Trump. People treat him like a new thing when he's really just what happens if a Republican candidate just gave up all pretense of caring for anyone other than himself.

What is more important than even this presidential election is getting the Democrats into Congress and state offices and the Republicans out of it. Clinton may be a Democrat, but the Republicans are still going to stonewall her if they control the House & the Senate, even on electing Supreme Court Justices.

edited 12th Sep '16 11:38:18 AM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#138298: Sep 12th 2016 at 11:54:54 AM

Hillary Clinton was wrong: Donald Trump's voters are not 'irredeemable'

No surprise that such an editorial would be written. But this stuck out to me:

What is, in fact, deplorable is not only that Clinton said this but that she apparently believes it. There’s no question that Trump is running a xenophobic campaign that’s pandering to white nationalism and that a portion of his base enthusiastically embraces overtly anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, misogynistic and racist views. But a far wider percentage of Trump’s supporters fall into a gray area of more generalized resentment that is partly about identity but also about economic suffering. Clinton and liberals in general should be reaching out to these voters, not offending them.

Agreed there. If I were running for president, I'd say something like, "I understand that you're hurting. Many of you have seen jobs disappear, and are worried about the livelihoods of yourselves and your children," and go into detail about... something. I'd try to convince people that the shift to the Computer Age (my name for it, where the internet and marchine learning transform everything) is hurting a lot of people in the short term much like how the Industrial Revolution did, and the digital divide (I blame both parties for not helping, but mostly Republicans for voting against municipal broadband and regulations on ISPs) for making it worse for rural people.

[[quoteblock]The Republican strategy to deliberately stoke racial resentment to attract the loyalty of white voters who, like voters of color, are actually directly and overtly harmed by Republican policies — this is irredeemable. But the voters themselves are not. Their hopes and dreams are deeply inspiring and deeply American. And their anger and frustration with economic inequality is absolutely spot on. The problem is the solution they’ve been sold by the GOP. Ending affirmative action, cutting the minimum wage, slashing food stamps, repealing the Affordable Care Act and deregulating corporations won’t put the American Dream back within the reach of millions of struggling Americans. In fact, it will put that dream even further out of reach. ]The reality is that working people of all races fare far better under Democratic presidents and Democratic policies. Clinton needs to reach out to all voters and tell them this truth — and confront racial resentment without labeling everyone who considers it racist.[[/quoteblock]]

Then this interesting story is told:

Recently, the brilliant black public intellectual Heather Mc Ghee was on C-SPAN when a white man from North Carolina called in for advice. He talked about how he knows he’s prejudiced, but thinks his prejudices are justified and he feels afraid of black people. And then, stunningly, he asked Mc Ghee, “What can I do to change? You know, to be a better American?”

That in and of itself was remarkable and wonderful. But then Mc Ghee offered a model of compassion and leadership that everyone — black, brown and white — should follow. She expressed gratitude to the caller. “Thank you so much for being honest and for opening up this conversation because it is simply one of the most important ones we have to have in this country,” Mc Ghee said. She offered the caller an olive branch, pointing out that people of all races actually hold unconscious prejudices. With a warm smile on her face and an unmistakable tone of kindness in her voice, she offered some advice, including expanding his social network to include black families and reading more about the history of race and racism in America.

I don’t know if that caller is planning to vote for Trump, but there are many white voters like him who are. We shouldn’t tell them they’re deplorable. In fact, we shouldn’t tell them anything at all. We should listen to their anger and their concerns and try to understand.

And finally, a comment from the comments section claiming the media is focusing too much on the "deplorables", while ignoring an attempt at an olive branch Hillary extended:

Your op-ed ignored the other part of Clinton's statement, which DID acknowledge that "the other half" of Trump's supporters are frustrated, angry, and in dire need of change:

"“that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re desperate for change.”

It is easy to ignore that statement since her deplorable remarks were so incendiary, no one can get past them, but your argument is weak when your op-ed gives the impression that Hillary cast ALL supporters as racist when, in fact, the accurate context of her remarks did acknowledge the Trump supporters your essay described.

Lennik (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138299: Sep 12th 2016 at 12:19:03 PM

Honestly, though, that guy who called in for advice on how not to be prejudiced is not exactly the norm. I think most people whose ideas are racist enough to vote for Trump don't see themselves as prejudiced at all. They see themselves as the victims of anti-white discrimination, and you can't convince that kind of delusion to change its mind once the fires of racial resentment have been stoked. When these people complain about political correctness, they're not railing against the thing George Carlin complained about. They're complaining that they can't say n***** anymore or call Mexicans rapists without being criticized.

As Jon Stewart once said, "You cannot control crazy." I think trying to attract those voters is a waste of time for any liberal Democrat.

edited 12th Sep '16 12:19:50 PM by Lennik

That's right, boys. Mondo cool.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#138300: Sep 12th 2016 at 12:29:36 PM

It's getting so fucking tiresome how these people can openly cheer on racism and bigotry, but god forbid you call them racists.


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