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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#138176: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:10:00 PM

RE: Clinton's health, David Shuster tweeted about contacts of his in the DNC that allege that there might be an emergency meeting to arrange a replacement for Clinton if her health worsens. Given that her doctor said it was pneumonia and dehydration, and that pneumonia is a very common cause of death among the 70+ crowd, I can understand why the precaution is warranted.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138177: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:11:10 PM

I'd be surprised if any political party worthy of the label doesn't have contingencies for that sort of thing.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#138178: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:11:36 PM

Clinton isn't 70 is she?

Edit: Logically the nomination would go to Kaine or Sanders.

edited 11th Sep '16 6:12:11 PM by Kostya

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#138179: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:13:56 PM

Please don't put me in that position.sadsadsadsadsadsadsad

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#138180: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:21:41 PM

[up][up] Trump is in his 70s, I know that. He's already gone senile.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
TheWanted Since: Oct, 2013
#138182: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:42:46 PM

Trump is just doing what liberals do all the time: float a trial baloon of a statement/policy, then if the reaction isn't in their favor "compromise" on a "bi-partisan" ideal that brings you closer to your true goal. Republicans dutifully follow in line, in order to not be called phobes and 'ist'

Rinse, repeat until desired outcome is achieved.

E.g., liberals want to demolish the capitol monument. Republicans counter with a plan to do it over a period of years and in stages. Lberals want the whole pie, Republicans give them half. Few days later they want half of the pie remaining.

This isn't a compromise.

Liberals are just being sore Trump is using their own tactics against them

edited 11th Sep '16 6:45:56 PM by TheWanted

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138183: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:45:18 PM

@Kostya: Ballot access would be a major issue at this juncture for Sanders, so it'd be Kaine, though it's entirely possible they'd put him in as VP if the worst came to pass.

edited 11th Sep '16 6:45:25 PM by CaptainCapsase

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138184: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:45:48 PM

Liberals are "sore" because Trump is advocating taking away the human rights of thousands of people.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138185: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:50:31 PM

That's... not what Trump is doing at all, though. He's less 'compromise' and more 'double down'.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138186: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:51:08 PM

[up][up][up][up]Pretty sure liberals are "sore" about Trump's foreign and domestic policy being downright insane.

And that tactic is A) quite old, B) not exclusive to any particular ideology, and C) is generally OK when it isn't being used to promote ideas such as "certain segments of the population are subhuman" and "let Russia make the world it's bitch".

[up]Also this. If anything Trump is simply testing the water to see how bad ~45% of the American electorate really is.

edited 11th Sep '16 7:11:58 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWanted Since: Oct, 2013
#138187: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:55:35 PM

the rights of which people?

And trump is doubling down in his statements, not in what he probably thinks he's going to realistically accomplish.

edited 11th Sep '16 6:57:19 PM by TheWanted

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#138188: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:55:49 PM

His approach is less bipartisan and more bipolar. He's previously said he's "softening" and "hardening" his stance on immigration simultaneously, while changing nothing about his supposed policies. He just wants to have his cake and eat it too.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138189: Sep 11th 2016 at 6:59:55 PM

At best, Trump is using business negotiating techniques in a political arena, despite the fact that you can't "walk away" from the national debt if the other party isn't willing to cave to your demands.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138190: Sep 11th 2016 at 7:01:54 PM

He wants to ban Muslims from immigrating to this country, so that's one

He wants to overturn the gay marriage ruling, so that's two

He wants to have mexicans and muslims rounded up and deported/interned, that's four

The party platform involves numerous instances of removing the rights of minorities, such as taking kids from gay parents, putting gay people in ex gay camps, banning trans people from public restrooms...

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138191: Sep 11th 2016 at 7:11:02 PM

And let's throw in starting trade wars with US partners (which causes economic deprivation, no matter what protectionists say).

Or sending Syrian refugees back into a warzone.

Or sending women's rights back decades, especially when it comes to reproductive rights.

Or advocating for summary executions, massacring civilians (maybe even US citizens), pillaging nations outright, and praising dictators who destabilize democracies or gas their people.

edited 11th Sep '16 7:13:38 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#138192: Sep 11th 2016 at 7:34:57 PM

Also, he wants to make it a lot easier to sue for defamation, something he stands quite a bit to benefit from personally.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#138193: Sep 11th 2016 at 7:47:48 PM

If he doesn't think he can accomplish these things, then what's the point in doubling down on his statements? We went over this once before: politicians usually make an effort to fulfill their campaign promises, with "broken" promises often stemming more from Congressional opposition than from the president not following through.

And those rights? Are the rights of US citizens, given that much of his commentary indicates he'll ban US citizens from coming back to the country if they're Muslims traveling abroad. He's also threatened to basically withdraw from various trade agreements and multinational platforms, essentially removing our country from the global conversation and leaving us at a huge disadvantage and the world at large in chaos. This man has no idea how to conduct himself diplomatically. He's also shown a tendency to basically bend over backwards praising people who praise him in even the vaguest terms, hence his bizarre attitudes towards Putin.

edited 11th Sep '16 7:50:57 PM by AceofSpades

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138194: Sep 11th 2016 at 8:07:03 PM

Anybody else notice that both the thread's Trump defenders don't seem to pay much attention to what Trump actually says? As the Clinton campaign has been saying for a while now, "when somebody shows you who they really are, believe them."

liberals want to demolish the capitol monument

There's no liberal policy even remotely that extreme or stupid that I can think of.

Lberals want the whole pie, Republicans give them half. Few days later they want half of the pie remaining.

You don't really pay attention to American politics, do you? The Republicans haven't compromised on anything of any meaning with anybody in a long time. That's the whole problem with the Tea Party—they demand ideological purity and primary their own guys if they dare to compromise with anybody.

Republicans dutifully follow in line, in order to not be called phobes and 'ist'

The hell they do. Since when has a Republican ever recoiled from being called homophobic? For that matter, while they might not like being dubbed racist or sexist, I can't think of the last time a Republican backed away from a sexist or racist position without screaming and crying the entire way.

There's an awful lot of strawmen in this post, Wanted.

the rights of which people?

Anyone who isn't a straight, white man. Or have you somehow missed all of Trump's commentary—and the GOP's platform—on Mexicans, Muslims, blacks, and anything-other-than-straight people?

PinkElephantOnParade Since: Apr, 2016
#138195: Sep 11th 2016 at 8:50:08 PM

There's no liberal policy even remotely that extreme or stupid that I can think of.
There's not one so vague, either. As someone with a significant interest in architecture and a fairly decent knowledge of Washington, I cannot for the life of me figure out what the "capitol monument" is supposed to be.

"I wish that Mark Twain was still alive so that I could say 'oh hai, Mark' to him."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138196: Sep 11th 2016 at 8:53:09 PM

New topic, new post.

As September 11 winds down and I end a day in which my Facebook feed was flooded with "Never Forget" memes, I find myself reflecting on the irony that while 9/11 is the date of one of the most famous attacks on the United States, it is also the date of one of the most iconic examples of the USA meddling in another nation's affairs.

On September 11, 1973, Augusto Pinochet overthrew the government of Chile. He had CIA backing, and had in fact been encouraged by both Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger to remove President Allende who was regarded as a Marxist and a Soviet stooge. I won't go into the details, because I've discussed it before in this thread, but suffice it to say, it was one of the most violent incidents in Chilean history, and the carnage continued long after the coup was over. 3000 people died, tens of thousands were imprisoned, raped and tortured, and 200 000 were forced into exile.

What I find tragic is how little has ultimately changed since then, despite the best efforts of people like Jimmy Carter. When confronted with an enemy that cannot easily be targeted—Communism, Islamists—the USA all too often still grossly overreacts, sees enemies where there are none, and winds up killing a whole lot of people who did not need to die. The destruction of Iraq (and arguably Afghanistan) and all that's come from that is perhaps the prime modern example of this tendency, just as Pinochet and the other Central and South American juntas were the prime examples during the Cold War.

What's even worse in this case, is that Trump's campaign seems determined to bring Pinochet-style politics to the US itself. As bad as Nixon and later Reagan were, they at least refrained from importing the sort of leadership that they enforced on others. Trump's personal obsession with internal enemies, his idolization and idealization of figures like Vladimir Putin and Saddam Hussein, his conflation of all criticism with personal attacks and of all personal attacks with assaults on the nation, they are all very reminiscent of the strongmen that the US backed during the Cold War. His notions about deporting undesirables in particular would make Pinochet, very proud.

To all the Americans in this thread, I wish you all well this September 11. And I hope that going forward you elect leaders who will choose not to repeat the mistakes of prior 9/11s, either at home or abroad.

Nightlikeday Teller of secret stories. Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Teller of secret stories.
#138197: Sep 11th 2016 at 8:59:23 PM

Hilary's recent incident with pneumonia could definitively make her seem as "weak" against her notorious opponent. Any thoughts?

I know the truth—darkness beats light. Visit my DA: I'll share my secrets stories with you.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#138198: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:01:35 PM

You know, the scary thing is that if Clinton were to somehow die from this, then Trump would probably win by default.

edited 11th Sep '16 9:01:44 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#138199: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:04:12 PM

[up]It's too late.

Too late to even point out that Trump's suits are explicitly tailored to hide a life of very little but fast food (something about the preparation allegedly being cleaner) and no exercise.

Democrats and "crazy" statements: Where exactly are you getting your news? For most of the past 8 years the people bringing the US government to a standstill were members of the GOP. And this renders them fit for the presidency?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#138200: Sep 11th 2016 at 9:04:52 PM

She can get through two more months at the very least. I doubt this case of pneumonia is gonna be life-threatening, anyway.

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"

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