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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Well that's fine.
Are you neutral? neither Demo nor Repub?
Once again, show us the evidence. You say Trump is more moderate than he appears and Clinton more conservative than she does. That's a heck of a claim, since it goes against all their stated positions and public actions.
You say this is true? Show us the evidence. Otherwise you're at best embracing the balance fallacy.
edited 11th Sep '16 3:14:27 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
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Oh, well that's fine.
edited 11th Sep '16 3:15:26 PM by AlphaVII
Warrior to the very end! My tumblr, dood!Skepticism is one thing. Pseudoskeptic denialism and Double Standards are another.
x4 Even when FDR had polio, JFK had Parkinson's and I'm not sure what else, and who knows how many others.
Of course, they didn't exactly advertise that...
edited 11th Sep '16 3:18:02 PM by KarkatTheDalek
Oh God! Natural light!Criticise away, but don't frame your criticism as "and this is why people shouldn't vote for Clinton" because when you do that you come across not as someone interested in legitimate criticism of Clinton but as someone interested in getting Trump elected president.
There are many legitimate criticisms of Clinton, I've yet to find one that would make me consider it worthwhile to not vote for her so as to stop a Trump presidency (or even worthwhile to not vote for her in a vacuum).
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI always felt like the Democrats were like the Labor Union, always against the elite and for the little people of the country. Maybe it's because of Hillary, but I don't want to vote her nor Mc Ginty but not Trump or Toomey either, since they were elite I didn't like back then and still don't.
edited 11th Sep '16 3:18:36 PM by MrRockler
For what it's worth, although this is kind of sophistry, I suppose Clinton is conservative in the sense that she wants to "conserve" (and further) the current status quo under President Obama, it's just that that status quo is progressive. However, if Clinton is conservative in this sense, then Trump is reactionary, not moderate.
There is also an argument much advanced by Bernie Sanders that Clinton is on the conservative wing of the Democratic Party. I think that is inaccurate, but is a bit closer to the truth. However, she's still in the left wing of American politics generally in terms of her stances on social, economic, and foreign policies.
Depending on the time of day, Trump expresses positions on economic and some social issues that would fall on the left wing spectrum of American opinion. However, his positions on all other issues are in the extreme of conservative opinion. In fact, I think it's particularly unfair to call him a moderate because while he's moderate on some issues in the way the (largely extinct) moderate Republican tends to be, where he is on the conservative side, he's way more extreme.
How is Clinton not against the elite? The press hate her, the Republicans hate her, she's pushing for increased access to university, better LGBT rights, better minority rights, more access to healthcare, a higher minimum wage and more. That sure sound like standing up for the marginalised little guy to me.
edited 11th Sep '16 3:23:15 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranIt does depend on your definition of "elite." For example, it's quite likely that Clinton could win the majority of college-educated whites, which would be a first for a Democrat, if I remember correctly.
And I think I remember the Brexit thread talking about the disconnect within the Labour party, with the rural/industrial voters choosing to leave, and the metropolitan voters choosing remain.
From that book of museums and globalization I mentioned a while back (from 2006, and speaking mostly in observation of Europe):
...A deepening sense on the part of the white working-class constituencies of being less a party to, than an object of critique within, those discourses - evident in the official languages of law and administration as well as in the major institutions of public culture (schools, colleges, and universities, public service broadcasting, libraries, museums) - which promote an acceptance of cultures-in-difference.note Where this results in a discursive environment that mobilizes and legitimizes ongoing hostility toward racialized minorities, the risk is equally real that the latter will also opt for ways of maintaining and developing their own specific cultures and values that rest more on separatist values than on dialogic ones.
edited 11th Sep '16 3:49:20 PM by Eschaton
Sure...but those who obsess over that particular demographic over the exclusion of others don't generally focus on progressive social policy, but instead tell said white men that it's the presence of minorities that is keeping them down.
EDIT: Colbert on the Trump/Bondi scandal
.
edited 11th Sep '16 4:12:57 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
True, but there's a very clear difference between wanting to help alleviate the actual issues facing the white working class (this demographic's life expectancy is currently declining!) and turning their (rather justified) ire against a convenient scapegoat as the GOP has been doing for years and as Trump and his European counterparts have taken to a whole new level.
edited 11th Sep '16 4:21:00 PM by CaptainCapsase
Which is where racial isolation comes into play, I take it - it's easier to get them to blame minority groups when they don't actually know anybody in said groups.
Oh God! Natural light!

@138134
I dont know about that. I've been around the internet and have had my fair share of troll encounters. If Rockler is a troll, he's not very "baity" for one.
edited 11th Sep '16 3:12:47 PM by nervmeister