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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#138151: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:12:02 PM

@138134

I dont know about that. I've been around the internet and have had my fair share of troll encounters. If Rockler is a troll, he's not very "baity" for one.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:12:47 PM by nervmeister

MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
#138152: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:12:28 PM

[up][up][up][up]

I only wished to tackle someone who is rarely ever criticized on this forum, I don't agree with Trump but the many things I disagree with the man on has already been covered so i wanted to discuss Mrs. Clinton.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:12:47 PM by MrRockler

AlphaVII Mecha and Waifu, become one! from A part of the endless starry sky Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Mecha and Waifu, become one!
#138153: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:13:35 PM

[up]Well that's fine. Are you neutral? neither Demo nor Repub?

Warrior to the very end! My tumblr, dood!
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138154: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:13:43 PM

Once again, show us the evidence. You say Trump is more moderate than he appears and Clinton more conservative than she does. That's a heck of a claim, since it goes against all their stated positions and public actions.

You say this is true? Show us the evidence. Otherwise you're at best embracing the balance fallacy.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:14:27 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138155: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:14:15 PM

So, Clinton is sick. Apart from this being yet more proof against the existence of a benevolent and omnipotent god, I wonder how it will actually impact the race?

edited 11th Sep '16 3:17:45 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
#138156: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:14:36 PM

[up][up][up]

I used to be Democrat actually, voted Obama in 2008 but haven't voted since, I'm still registered but I don't feel like a Democrat anymore and certainly I'm not a Republican.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:14:51 PM by MrRockler

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138157: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:15:16 PM

[up][up]To the right—and those misogynists who exist on the left—it will be evidence that she's unfit for office, since men don't get sick, but weak, sissy women do. It will also fuel the "she's ill" conspiracy theory that Trump's been pushing.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:15:49 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138158: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:15:17 PM

Why don't you feel like a Democrat? I I can ask.

Oh really when?
AlphaVII Mecha and Waifu, become one! from A part of the endless starry sky Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Mecha and Waifu, become one!
#138159: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:15:20 PM

[up][up]Oh, well that's fine.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:15:26 PM by AlphaVII

Warrior to the very end! My tumblr, dood!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#138160: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:16:35 PM

Skepticism is one thing. Pseudoskeptic denialism and Double Standards are another.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#138161: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:17:48 PM

[up]x4 Even when FDR had polio, JFK had Parkinson's and I'm not sure what else, and who knows how many others.

Of course, they didn't exactly advertise that...

edited 11th Sep '16 3:18:02 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138162: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:18:10 PM

I only wished to tackle someone who is rarely ever criticized on this forum,

Criticise away, but don't frame your criticism as "and this is why people shouldn't vote for Clinton" because when you do that you come across not as someone interested in legitimate criticism of Clinton but as someone interested in getting Trump elected president.

There are many legitimate criticisms of Clinton, I've yet to find one that would make me consider it worthwhile to not vote for her so as to stop a Trump presidency (or even worthwhile to not vote for her in a vacuum).

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
#138163: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:18:13 PM

@Le Garcon

I always felt like the Democrats were like the Labor Union, always against the elite and for the little people of the country. Maybe it's because of Hillary, but I don't want to vote her nor Mc Ginty but not Trump or Toomey either, since they were elite I didn't like back then and still don't.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:18:36 PM by MrRockler

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138164: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:19:40 PM

People are already saying that Clinton is faking her illness to get sympathy, and that by daring to get sick on 9/11 she is being "disrespectful".

I need to stop looking at comment sections, they'll give me high blood pressure before I'm 30.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138165: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:20:28 PM

For what it's worth, although this is kind of sophistry, I suppose Clinton is conservative in the sense that she wants to "conserve" (and further) the current status quo under President Obama, it's just that that status quo is progressive. However, if Clinton is conservative in this sense, then Trump is reactionary, not moderate.

There is also an argument much advanced by Bernie Sanders that Clinton is on the conservative wing of the Democratic Party. I think that is inaccurate, but is a bit closer to the truth. However, she's still in the left wing of American politics generally in terms of her stances on social, economic, and foreign policies.

Depending on the time of day, Trump expresses positions on economic and some social issues that would fall on the left wing spectrum of American opinion. However, his positions on all other issues are in the extreme of conservative opinion. In fact, I think it's particularly unfair to call him a moderate because while he's moderate on some issues in the way the (largely extinct) moderate Republican tends to be, where he is on the conservative side, he's way more extreme.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138166: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:20:39 PM

@rational: Worst case scenario, she has a reaction to antibiotics and abruptly dies.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#138167: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:22:17 PM

How is Clinton not against the elite? The press hate her, the Republicans hate her, she's pushing for increased access to university, better LGBT rights, better minority rights, more access to healthcare, a higher minimum wage and more. That sure sound like standing up for the marginalised little guy to me.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:23:15 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#138168: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:33:49 PM

I.... uh don't think he considers support for minority rights (especially in terms of women's rights) to be a positive.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:34:28 PM by Hodor2

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138169: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:38:53 PM

[up][up]I guess it depends on if you think "the little guy" is the poor oppressed straight white man.

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#138170: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:40:36 PM

Oh joy, we're talking about how Clinton is scary and bad because she's "conservative".

Completely ignoring her having the most progressive platform in the history of our country. And directly stating on numerous occasions that she won't sign the TPP.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138171: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:41:51 PM

[up][up] A fair chunk of that demographic is in poverty, and while their oppression isn't due to the color of their skin, their gender, or their sexuality, they absolutely are oppressed in their own way.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:52:52 PM by CaptainCapsase

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#138172: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:44:55 PM

It does depend on your definition of "elite." For example, it's quite likely that Clinton could win the majority of college-educated whites, which would be a first for a Democrat, if I remember correctly.

And I think I remember the Brexit thread talking about the disconnect within the Labour party, with the rural/industrial voters choosing to leave, and the metropolitan voters choosing remain.

From that book of museums and globalization I mentioned a while back (from 2006, and speaking mostly in observation of Europe):

A risk that in the very process of fostering greater and more open cross-cultural dialogue among cosmopolitan elites, museumsnote  may do little to address racialized forms of social conflict arising from the relations between sections of the white working and lower middle classes, whose only experience of globalization is deindustrialization and unemployment, and the migrant communities who live in close proximitynote , usually in contexts where the housing stock, social services, and public amenities are under tremendous pressure.

...A deepening sense on the part of the white working-class constituencies of being less a party to, than an object of critique within, those discourses - evident in the official languages of law and administration as well as in the major institutions of public culture (schools, colleges, and universities, public service broadcasting, libraries, museums) - which promote an acceptance of cultures-in-difference.note  Where this results in a discursive environment that mobilizes and legitimizes ongoing hostility toward racialized minorities, the risk is equally real that the latter will also opt for ways of maintaining and developing their own specific cultures and values that rest more on separatist values than on dialogic ones.

edited 11th Sep '16 3:49:20 PM by Eschaton

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138173: Sep 11th 2016 at 3:59:32 PM

A fair chunk of that demographic is in poverty, and while their oppression isn't due to the color of their skin, their gender, or their sexuality, they absolutely are oppressed in their own way.

Sure...but those who obsess over that particular demographic over the exclusion of others don't generally focus on progressive social policy, but instead tell said white men that it's the presence of minorities that is keeping them down.

EDIT: Colbert on the Trump/Bondi scandal.

edited 11th Sep '16 4:12:57 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138174: Sep 11th 2016 at 4:13:05 PM

[up] True, but there's a very clear difference between wanting to help alleviate the actual issues facing the white working class (this demographic's life expectancy is currently declining!) and turning their (rather justified) ire against a convenient scapegoat as the GOP has been doing for years and as Trump and his European counterparts have taken to a whole new level.

edited 11th Sep '16 4:21:00 PM by CaptainCapsase

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#138175: Sep 11th 2016 at 4:17:39 PM

Which is where racial isolation comes into play, I take it - it's easier to get them to blame minority groups when they don't actually know anybody in said groups.

Oh God! Natural light!

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