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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138101: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:24:55 PM

Apparently Rockler has missed Trump's embrace of David Duke, the Klan, and various other white nationalist movements. As well as his embrace of Alex Jones and the rest of the conspiracy theory fringe. And his own barrage of misogynistic comments. And his championing of the "birther" movement.

Seriously, which of these things scream "moderate" to you?

[up][up]...Are you trying to claim a bad trade deal is worse than fascism?

edited 11th Sep '16 2:26:21 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138102: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:25:43 PM

[up][up]Nope, he's just sorta shut up about that. But his base/the average Republican still believes that trash. Hence why Clinton was right about the whole deplorable thing.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:31:52 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138103: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:25:57 PM

[up][up][up][up]Fuck no it doesn't. Did you even read Ambar's or Rational's list?

How the hell is TPP even remotely comparable to that? We're talking about the death of NATO and the Western world.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:26:31 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138104: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:28:02 PM

I sometimes think about all the damage that the likes of Nixon and Reagan did to the world, with their support of neofascists like Pinochet, Videla, Rios Montt, and Habre (who finally went to jail this year!). They installed one junta after another in the name of fighting Communism.

Then I think about the sort of people that Trump would think it was alright to install in the name of fighting Islamism, and I hope we never, ever have to find out.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138105: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:28:11 PM

Trump's economic positions, his stance on LGBT rights and women's issues, and a few other things about him are arguably centrist. Arguably insofar as he's horrendously inconsistent on those things, and the official GOP platform is anything but centrist.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#138106: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:29:04 PM

And one thing about the TTP...it will have little to no impact on Americans. It is supposed to export American copyright laws to other countries. Now, I don't really like it, but I'm Canadian. We're one of the countries that could get smacked by it if it goes bad. The US won't be.

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#138107: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:30:13 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up]Like I said, Trumps sole appeal for me is starting to feel undermined by his other, less savory ambitions for America plus the weird shit he's been getting into with Russia. If you think I'm a fan of his, you're sorely mistaken.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:31:15 PM by nervmeister

MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
#138108: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:31:28 PM

The bar for gay acceptance by the GOP is low, but Trump is still pretty above that, not by much, but still. Only reason I think he nominated Mike Pence and attended conservative rallies is to rally up the Republican base, I doubt he really has a strong opinion on the subject.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#138109: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:32:37 PM

Passive tolerance of people like Pence and the current GOP platform is still unacceptable.

Oh really when?
MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#138111: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:35:07 PM

And being not quite as extreme as GOP on that stuff isn't really centrist by any useful definition of the term.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#138112: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:35:27 PM

He's still actively enabling them which is almost as bad. Just because he's not out and about campaigning for it means he's a "moderate" anymore than if you replaced being a Heteronormative Crusader with a Flat Earther.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:36:52 PM by AlleyOop

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138113: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:35:27 PM

So Trump is, at best, just pretending to be a racist, homo/transphobic promoter of violence to pander for votes? How is that make him moderate.

He could be considered centrist on the economy, though his history suggests he will go full pro-business if given power. And his record with women...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138114: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:38:01 PM

And that's just what he'll do to the USA. What he might do to other countries doesn't really bear thinking about. Whether it's withdrawing from NATO in the face of Russian aggression, or deciding that Iraq really needs Saddam 2.0 to keep its people in line, a Trump presidency could have grave implications for a whole lot of people outside the USA.

Again, I keep thinking about American support for guys like Pinochet and The Process. And that was under Nixon, Ford, and Reagan, all of whom were, compared to Trump, moderates, yet still managed to find it in themselves to put neofascist regimes in power if it helped keep the Commies down. So if Trump thinks that someone like that is needed to keep the Islamists in line...well we could be looking at even more dead.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:40:26 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
#138115: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:38:13 PM

There are more topics besides social issues involving Trump and his odd trend of swinging, his comments on women are, to me, irrelevant when taking his policy positions into account.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#138116: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:40:39 PM

Are his foreign and trade policy ideas acceptable to you?

edited 11th Sep '16 2:41:01 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#138117: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:41:51 PM

[up] No, since as far as I recall he's not voting for Trump.

MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
#138118: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:41:54 PM

Why'd you ask me that, I'm only stating he's a moderate and his positions (Apart from his immigration ideas) reflect that.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138119: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:43:31 PM

Having extremist social positions, and then one or two comparatively sane economic positions does not make you a moderate. Under that definition, Mussolini and Juan Peron were both moderates.

I also find it somewhat concerning that you'd consider accepting Trump's social positions in exchange for...what exactly?

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#138120: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:43:50 PM

[up]x5 So you're just willing to vote for a misogynist? Nice to know what kind of person you are.

And no, they're not irrelevant. If Trump's elected, there's the possibility he could pick two new Supreme Court judges, which may women's rights back, oh, a few decades. Not to mention that a Republican Congress won't mind these rights being trampled on.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:44:16 PM by SciFiSlasher

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#138121: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:44:34 PM

So Trump is, at best, just pretending to be a racist, homo/transphobic promoter of violence to pander for votes? How is that make him moderate.
He's "moderate" in the sense that he probably doesn't care one way or the other personally. Thus, he just goes with whoever will give him the most support.

And here I would argue there's a difference between "moderation" and "a lack of principles."

Sure, he himself might not get riled up about "the gay agenda," which looks good in comparison to the personally-invested anti-gay crowd. But they're the ones utilizing his lack of care to curry favor and gain power. So, he might want to protect the LGBT from a harmful foreign ideology, but when it comes to any harmful domestic ideology, he is completely silent, when he's not embracing groups who champion anti-gay "Christian values."

Jasaiga Since: Jan, 2015
#138122: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:45:03 PM

I'll just point out something: Trump's position on anything literally changes depending on who was the last person who talked to him.

MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
#138123: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:45:07 PM

[up][up][up]

I'm guessing I have to outright say I'm not voting for Trump when I'm defending him, since most people assume this.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:45:31 PM by MrRockler

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#138124: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:47:46 PM

His love affair with Alex Jones and the rest of the conspiracy theorists should also be pretty concerning to anybody, left or right. Seriously, Glenn Beck once denounced Jones as a purveyor of lies, and there should never be a person that Beck can say that to without being enormously hypocritical—yet there he is.

Trump lives in a fact free world where things are the way he says they are for no other reason than he says they are. Even by the standards of the reactionary right, his campaign is out there on the fringe, with his son posting links to Infowars on his Twitter account, while Trump himself cites the National Inquirer as a reliable source.

Moderates don't cite conspiracy theorists. Moderates don't embrace the Klan, or various other Neo-Nazi and Neo-Confederate groups. Moderates don't claim a president they dislike is from Kenya and a secret Muslim. Moderates don't accuse that same president of supporting terrorism or creating ISIS.

Explain to me how any of this is "moderate" behaviour. Words have meanings.

edited 11th Sep '16 2:50:00 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#138125: Sep 11th 2016 at 2:49:19 PM

[up] His base literally consists of Youtube trolls, neo-nazis, and white Southern confederates.


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