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LinkToTheFuture A real bad hombre from somewhere completely different Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
A real bad hombre
#137851: Sep 9th 2016 at 12:47:10 PM

All right, thanks. I'd like to think I'm reasonably up-to-date on current events but this election is such a nightmare. I've heard of all those things before, and didn't think much of them, so I assumed that there had to be some other things that Clinton is suspected of, because "Hillary is a crook" is something I hear ad nauseaum from all kinds of people and sources of wildly different political beliefs, so I was wondering what the deal was. To me it just seems like Clinton is no more corrupt or crooked than your average national-level politician, and "Crooked Hillary" seems like more of a meme at this point than anything to me personally.

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#137852: Sep 9th 2016 at 12:51:21 PM

Yep. The old definition of the word meme, too. This isn't something people are spreading around because they think it's fun, it's something that's being spread around because it's infected them.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#137853: Sep 9th 2016 at 1:39:23 PM

Why? Some inherent distrust founded on what, exactly? The secret fear that she's some kind of mole for Big Money? Get over it.

Specifically, forcing politicians to accede to these kinds of demands gives legitimacy to the conspiracy theories that give birth to them. Much like the birther controversy, it's a tactic designed to tie people up in knots disproving wild accusations instead of governing or discussing policy.

"Prove you didn't murder your wife." "She died of cancer." "See? You won't give us proof, therefore you must be guilty."

And even when politicians do acquiesce to the ridiculous demands, it doesn't actually make the conspiracy theory go away. There are still people claiming Obama's ineligible for Presidency because he was born in Kenya.

Part of the motivation is a pure, ideological hatred of liberalism and those who would dare bring it to the White House, and part of it is a deliberate, planned attempt to make the country ungovernable by Democrats.

And don't forget the part that's just f*cking hated Hillary since Bill's time in office because, rather than being a "proper First Lady" and just providing a pretty smile to back up her husband, she took a serious interest in politics and built a political career that overshadowed even his. There are many in the GOP who've never forgiven her for overstepping her position as Bill's Wife.

And, like, they don't even try to hide the misogyny in it when they attack her with criticisms such as "Hillary couldn't even satisfy her husband! How could she satisfy America?"

edited 9th Sep '16 1:41:31 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137854: Sep 9th 2016 at 1:45:21 PM

[up]That's... reverse misoginy. They're calling her a cuck.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#137855: Sep 9th 2016 at 1:53:45 PM

Between most folks I know personally falling into the conservative viewpoint of LIBERAL BAD! and most of what I read here, I've come to view my political decisions via Trump and Clinton in very simple terms:

For all the smearing and scandal mongering, Clinton seems at worst, to be an Uber-example of Politics as Usual. However, as I've tended to say in one form or another, no amount of skeletons in her closet, real or imagined, changes the fact that she possesses the one thing I find vitally important that Trump has consistently shown himself to lack:

Competence.

From the moment I started following this election, Clinton was the single most qualified seeming person among all the candidates on both sides. Trump has through his words and deeds consistently shown he doesn't have the respect or temperament needed for the position of our highest elected official and no amount of being Presidential now is liable to sway me.

That's my opinion, and I'll acknowledge it's based more on subjective feeling than objective fact, but that's how I feel on the matter.

edited 9th Sep '16 1:54:46 PM by sgamer82

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#137856: Sep 9th 2016 at 1:55:07 PM

That's... reverse misoginy. They're calling her a cuck.

No, it's standard misogyny. They're blaming her for her husband's unfaithfulness. People have been doing that to women since long before "cuck" was ever a thing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137857: Sep 9th 2016 at 1:56:40 PM

[up]I thought it was always the men being blamed for being unable to control their women, that is to say, called cuckolds and publicly derided, and that, when the reverse happened, it wasn't anybody's fault?

edited 9th Sep '16 1:57:18 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#137858: Sep 9th 2016 at 1:56:55 PM

[up][up][up][tup]

edited 9th Sep '16 1:57:08 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#137859: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:03:10 PM

I thought it was always the men being blamed for being unable to control their women, and that, when the reverse happened, it wasn't anybody's fault?

Men being blamed for being unable to control their women is a relatively recent thing, at least in this context. Other contexts date back further. Like, if your woman is making a fuss about wanting to vote, you're clearly not keeping her in check like you're supposed to be.

And you're not wrong about the use of I'm a Man; I Can't Help It, but that's where the fault comes from. See, the way the logic goes, he's a man and he has needs, and if he's looking elsewhere to get those needs filled, it's because she's not fulfilling her marital responsibility to keep him properly satisfied.

That's part of the toxic gender role as it relates to sexuality. Women are expected to carry the burden of men's sexuality. If he drifts, the assumption is that she's not doing her job, while he skirts any responsibility for wandering because boys will be boys.

edited 9th Sep '16 2:05:34 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137860: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:05:16 PM

Relatively recent? I thought it was Older Than Dirt. It's certainly at least as old as The Decameron, the Canterbury Tales, and Don Juan.

edited 9th Sep '16 2:05:53 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#137861: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:22:18 PM

The choice of words is very telling: "Men unable to control their women", and "women unable to satisfy their man". So you can insult both while still staying as misogynistic as possible!

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
MrRockler Since: Sep, 2016
#137862: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:28:44 PM

I don't really have a preference over any candidate, frankly if I was in either party I'd be hoping for the other one to win so I could simply blame them for everything bad that happens during their term.

But I think Trump's going to win this, I know the polls are at a stalemate and can change at anytime or whatever, but through my experiences during this election and discussions with random people in random places across my state (Pennsylvania) most people I've spoken with either support Trump or think he'll win in November. I've met my fair share of Clinton voters too, but I doubt the majority of them are going to vote anyway because, while I see Clinton is trying to make this a "Go out and vote or else we'll have WW3!" kinda deal, I don't think many people care anymore.

Now speaking of PA, my home state, the polls are showing a tight race and while I seriously doubt it'd vote GOP ever again, if it does, they'll be one hell of a Wednesday in school.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#137863: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:40:08 PM

All of the state by state polls have Clinton winning by a decent margin. And I'll be amazed if Pennsylvania of all states starts going Trump.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#137864: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:51:55 PM

@sgamer82

That's essentially how I feel too. Also the same reason I lean towards Hillary over Sanders. I don't dislike the latter or love the former, but you can't run a nation on ideals alone.

edited 9th Sep '16 2:52:51 PM by AlleyOop

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137865: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:56:10 PM

Sanders ain't about ideals alone, never has been. He's pragmatic as it gets. Practical solutions for practical problems.

edited 9th Sep '16 2:56:52 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#137866: Sep 9th 2016 at 3:55:32 PM

His solutions are fine. His ability to get them passed through the mires of Congress or handle foreign policy matters? More questionable.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#137867: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:04:39 PM

Given the state of Congress I really don't see how Sander's ability to get anything done on the legislative side would be all that different from Hillary.

How he would handle foreign affairs is much more questionable though.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#137868: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:07:37 PM

[up][up]His proposed solutions weren't really viable, which is honestly what initially soured me on him. His budget proposal relied on magical single-payer efficiencies the same way Republican budgets tend to rely on magical free market trickle-down effects — ie, they didn't work unless you make unreasonably optimistic assumptions.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137869: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:10:24 PM

handle foreign policy matters

Given how he says war should be a last resort and NATO should be more multilateral and with the other countries pulling their own weight, I'd say he was a damned sight more promising in that department than your average Beltway jingoist trigger-happy cowboy. Also he's a specialist at striking bipartisan deals, and has made a great reputation for himself as a guy who does what he says he'll do. He also hasn't had a hate machine covering him with garbage for decades, so the non-democrat electorate who are pro-welfare, and there's a lot, don't hate him. So I don't see him doing worse than Hillary at getting things passed. Pity he'll never get to be President, and that things will remain business as usual at best, but, as he says, "That's the world that we live in."

[up]*sigh* Good point. But that's not the same as relying "on ideals alone". That's just over-promising, and being overoptimistic.

edited 9th Sep '16 4:12:11 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#137870: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:17:25 PM

I live in Pennsylvania, and over the past several months, do you know how many people I've seen or heard locally supporting Trump?

Six.

This includes: people with Trump signs on their front lawn; people with Trump banners in their place of business, and people who talk supportively about Trump in public (bars, restaurants, etc.)

Most folks don't discuss politics outside their comfort zone, but I've only encountered six who aren't ashamed to admit in public that they fully intend to vote for Trump. Make of that what you will...

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137871: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:26:08 PM

Well, good that they spoke up. Now we know who they are. sad

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#137872: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:34:42 PM

[up]That

is very dark and scary.

I know that you mean "so you can avoid them"

but that could easily be read as

"so we can get rid of them"

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#137873: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:36:13 PM

[up][up] & [up] I have to confess my immediate thought in response was a joking "now we can bag 'em and tag 'em."

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#137874: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:42:45 PM

Yeah Handle, poor choice of words

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#137875: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:44:11 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
Oh really when?

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