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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#137326: Sep 5th 2016 at 12:31:12 PM

Yeah, but he's going to be pilloried for it by the right. Apparently the right to peaceful protest only extends to things that they don't like.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137328: Sep 5th 2016 at 12:40:45 PM

[up]Walter White would have been better off taking those initial millions of his and starting a legit drug company. He'd have kept on doing the same shit, but now with the blessing of the state.

Speaking of which, what's with the wave of pharmaceutical price-gouging going on?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#137329: Sep 5th 2016 at 1:00:30 PM

[up][up]Meh. "Hurf durf big companies are evilbadwrong" is pretty much exactly how we end up with anti-vaxxer nutjobs and the like. I'm not saying that the current system is flawless (super-mega-obvious-fix-like-seriously-why-haven't-we-done-this-already number one: ban pharmaceutical advertising. Like, all of it. There's seriously zero reason to advertise prescription drugs directly to consumers), but most of that video is just generic "grrr big companies".

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#137330: Sep 5th 2016 at 1:06:06 PM

I was more interested in the things besides the companies.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137331: Sep 5th 2016 at 1:20:28 PM

[up][up]Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

Exhibit C:

I can go on all day. They are Evil with a capital E. They're holding people's lives in ransom. I mean, that's par of the course in the US health system, but when you change the prices on people like that, people whose lives are on the line can feel that you're being... unsporting.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#137332: Sep 5th 2016 at 1:22:30 PM

[up]

I can go on all day. They are Evil with a capital E. They're holding people's lives in ransom. I mean, that's par of the course in the US health system, but when you change the prices on people like that, people whose lives are on the line can feel that you're being... unsporting.

Would you think the same if the same companies were charging Government the same price in a single-payer system?

edited 5th Sep '16 1:22:50 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#137333: Sep 5th 2016 at 1:34:51 PM

I can go on all day. They are Evil with a capital E.
Fantastic, you've successfully demonized them. Everyone agrees with you that the health care industry in general and the pharamaceutical industry in particular are GRRR EVILBADWRONG.

So what? Do you think they give a shit what anyone thinks about them? Protip: they do not. Ranting about how evil they are accomplishes precisely jack.

If you want to fix the system, then make a specific point and propose a specific solution. The message "pharmaceutical companies are evil" is worthless.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#137334: Sep 5th 2016 at 1:39:58 PM

Yeah while they are evil it's rather obvious, water is also wet, stating that however does nothing to address the issue of people drowning.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137335: Sep 5th 2016 at 1:58:29 PM

[up][up][up]The whole point of Single Payer is that these arseholes don't get to pull this shit, because of the State's immense bargaining power as opposed to a collection of insurance companies or private citizens.

[up][up] If they didn't care, they wouldn't lobby and invest in PR so much. The more aware people are of their Evil, the more sceptical they'll be of their claims. So the claim is worth something. Well, some idiots take it too far an decide that all medical products are shit, which is moronic. But yeah, calling them Evil isn't demonization, because I don't need to make anything up, or even exaggerate. Their actions speak for themselves.

[up]The reason you can drown in water isn't because it's wet; it's because it's takes the place of air in your lungs if you breathe it in. Water being cold might have a contributing factor if you're in a situation where you need to swim continually in order to be able to breathe in air instead of water, but that's distinct from being cold.

Think your metaphors through.

And here's one thing that can be done to control these prices, besides single-payer:

Another reason they're Evil is that their alleged reason for high prices, "funding research", is mostly malarkey. Even the research they do fund is for not-very-useful stuff.

To cure them of their Evil and make them work for society, the government must give them the right set of incentives.

edited 5th Sep '16 2:01:58 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#137336: Sep 5th 2016 at 2:02:22 PM

Also add Eli Lilly and Aventis to the list. In the last year they've raised the cost of diabetes medication and paraphernalia to such an extent that without insurance a type 1 diabetic will average somewhere around $15,000 a year in expenditures. Lily went so far as to say there wasn't a reason for their hike in insulin to nearly $300 per vial other than "the cost should reflect the life saving benefits."

edited 5th Sep '16 2:02:46 PM by carbon-mantis

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#137337: Sep 5th 2016 at 2:03:10 PM

[up][up]

The whole point of Single Payer is that these arseholes don't get to pull this shit, because of the State's immense bargaining power as opposed to a collection of insurance companies or private citizens.

Speaking as a Brit, you'd be surprised — there are drugs so expensive that even the National Health Service can't afford to buy them...

To cure them of their Evil and make them work for society, the government must give them the right set of incentives.

Do what we want or we'll Nationalise you? Literally hold a gun against the Executives heads? smile

edited 5th Sep '16 2:05:49 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137338: Sep 5th 2016 at 2:18:35 PM

[up]Those are extreme options. Did you even watch the Healthcare Triage video I posted on Reference Pricing?

On the other hand, yes, these pharmaceutical companies are holding a gun to the heads of the patients: "The cost should reflect the life-saving benefits" is a polite way of saying "Pay us our exorbitant price or die". I'd say the gloves are off in such instances. "smile" to you.

edited 5th Sep '16 2:19:18 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#137339: Sep 5th 2016 at 2:54:12 PM

My solution to the problem of the Pharmaceutical companies is to reinvent the perp walk - have some officers go and grab Martin Shkreli, arrest him, shackle his hands behind his back, humiliate him by dragging him right through the public and out to the waiting truck.

Emasculate him. Make it clear he is not impervious to the power of law and order.

Bring him into court and make it clear that for his price gouging putting people's lives in danger, and for his numerous other crimes, he is going to be charged with vastly more serious crimes.

Make it clear to him he stands to hang from a tree for what he has done. Make him bargain for a less severe sentence, showing him the entire way through he is no longer in control of his life. Send him away for 30 to 50 years in the slammer, in a general prison rather than one of the cushy rich people prisons.

Then do that to all the other price gougers.

I guarantee after THAT harrowing experience, no more Pharma CE Os will price hike or engage in such unscrupulous behaviors.

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#137340: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:06:58 PM

Do you think they give a shit what anyone thinks about them? Protip: they do not. Ranting about how evil they are accomplishes precisely jack.

And ranting about how it accomplishes nothing accomplishes nothing either. It's not like the proposed solution on this forum is going to be implemented anyway. Your message that his message is worthless is worthless. So is this piece of text.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137341: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:11:39 PM

[up]Well it'll always be worth something to me. smile

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#137342: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:12:34 PM

The price gouging these guys are doing has the unfortunate detail of being technically legal...right now. That said, while I'm generally all for the free market and against the government having to hold metaphorical guns to companies heads, when life and death is on the line, what they're doing is indistinguishable from extortion and it's the drug companies holding the metaphorical guns. Not all drug companies (I remember one vowing to produce a cheaper version of the one AIDS drug that was being gouged) but definitely these, and definitely any whose "research" boils down to "buy up other people's patents just to make money off them" (a problem that exists in many industries, not just pharmaceuticals). They are holding metaphorical guns to patients heads and demanding money to not pull the trigger. I don't know any power with the clout to put them in check besides the government. (Public opinion can get the wheels rolling but without the force of law it can't overcome the power of the purse strings alone.)

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#137343: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:14:41 PM

[up][up][up]It's still annoying when people post these things as if they're revealing some grand revelation, as if most people don't already agree that pharmaceutical companies are fucked up, or at least that the practices he mentioned are fucked.

Yeah, complaining about complaining might not do anything either, but by that logic, there's no reason not to either.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#137344: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:15:57 PM

[up]X5 So threaten summary execution (in an inhumane manner as well) for doing something that while immoral is not illegal.

Because that doesn't set a bad precedent at all...

edited 5th Sep '16 3:17:52 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137345: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:16:22 PM

[up][up]It's complaints all the way down!

[up]I think it's obvious we were talking about a metaphorical gun. As in, daunting, unaffordable, personal consequences. A literal gun is far too blunt an instrument.

Unless the CEO is Black, I suppose.

edited 5th Sep '16 3:19:28 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#137347: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:19:29 PM

[up][up] I see no metaphor here beyond possible the use of hanging being colourful language for th death penalty by lethal injection. I also see no mention of the word gun.

"Make it clear to him he stands to hang from a tree for what he has done. Make him bargain for a less severe sentence, showing him the entire way through he is no longer in control of his life. Send him away for 30 to 50 years in the slammer, in a general prison rather than one of the cushy rich people prisons."

edited 5th Sep '16 3:20:10 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#137348: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:23:39 PM

Yeah, the metaphorical gun is a more common metaphor for the compusion of law in the rhetoric of libertarians (small L, both left and right wing versions). That[up] referenced post however was not, I think, being metaphorical.

edited 5th Sep '16 3:30:04 PM by Elle

NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#137349: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:27:43 PM

@ Silasw: I have no problem with the precedent, especially when applied to Pharmaceutical CEO's. They wouldn't actually hang, they'd be forced to bargain for their lives, fundamentally destroying their notions about being higher than the law.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#137350: Sep 5th 2016 at 3:29:27 PM

[up][up]If we're talking plea bargains, the execution is anything but summary.

[up]Precedent is problematic. Start from life imprisonment or even less, not execution. It has to be scary enough to deter them, but not so scary that they'd adopt a "kill all witness" policy through desperation.

edited 5th Sep '16 3:32:09 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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