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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
adding to the Syrian refugees: just because your grandfather said something decades ago doesn't mean that it applies here. times have changed, the context is key.
also, lgbt rights are a fucking huge issue. so many right-wing people, at best, have used lgbt tragedies like the Orlando shooting as a catalyst to push their agendas. at worst, they're out-right encouraging the deaths of lgbt members.
edited 2nd Sep '16 3:07:37 PM by golgothasArisen
"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"Pretty much. If say, different states want to make certain drugs legal or illegal, that's fine. Leaving aside all the issues relating to enforcement, imprisonment, etc, there is no Constitutional right to get high, and the fact that it's legal to buy marijuana in Colorado but not Texas isn't liable to ruin anyone's life.
But marriage? That's a fundamental right. It cannot be legal one place and illegal another place.
Looking over the screed from the last page, the anti-immigration stuff is really special. So's the attempt at trying to paint Trump as pro-gay rights. And of course writing off BLM and similar movements as "identity politics" and blaming the Democrats for the racists crawling out of the woodwork. Yeesh.
I didn't write it off. I said good things about it. Like I said, I was raised to be more colorblind and "race doesn't matter", but identity politics is something I've come around to believe isn't as bad as I first thought. I just don't like the hypocrisy of turning around and basically saying white identity politics shouldn't exist. I understand the argument, that because of white privilege they don't "need" it as much, but that's too much of a double standard, and human nature doesn't work that way. You need to find a way to reach out to the good people on that side, or we'll never have a hope of healing our divisions instead of making them worse.
This isn't the only thing I've changed my mind to the left on. I was much more transphobic a few years ago. I went from being completely ignorant of trans* issues, to suddenly seeing "die cis scum" everywhere, so of course I reacted negatively, but my views moderated over time. I still don't agree with the "sex =/= gender" argument, on a philosophical level, but I defer to pronouns, researched .
Someone mentioned earlier that Trump's opposed to bathroom equality, but that's actually completely false.
@drag: I didn't assume he was a troll, I was actually breaking down his post point by point when I got to the ridiculous sentence I first highlighted then did some digging. Plus it's essentially terrible person bingo. He hit literally every mark right down to fucking gamergate.
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?He supported the NC bathroom bill for god's sake.
also oh my god are you suggesting we need movements for white people
yep this is definitely a troll
edited 2nd Sep '16 3:13:49 PM by golgothasArisen
"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"Was the cry of states' rights ever more than a political dog whistle?
My first exposure to states' rights was marijuana laws, and conceal carry, so no, definitely not. I've always felt strongly that bottom-up rule by the people is superior to top-down rule by oligarchs in most instances. I think the next step after states' rights is more sending power from the states to the communities, and so on, too.
No they're not. That a prison sentence for an activity is a gross overreaction is a whole different issue from whether the activity should be legal. Five years in jail for jaywalking would be a gross overreaction. Doesn't mean jaywalking should be legalized.
So basically you want to get stoned and screw over gay people (and nonwhite minorities). Classic alt-right. Got it.
You haven't kept up with his position changes, have ya? He said he was opposed to the bill until his base screamed loud enough. Then he changed his position and threw his support to the bigots.
edited 2nd Sep '16 3:19:39 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Uh, I just want to say that the Alt-right? Their core really is Neo-nazis. That's not exaggeration or anything, it's totally literal.
It's 4chan nazis, who post memes. And redditors. And Breitbart. And Trump supporters, according to Hillary Clinton. And yes, some of them are stormfronters and real racists.
Alt-right, like SJW, has no set definition and no organized structure. This is exactly why the left got annoyed over the term over the years, since it was a useful term, but also a smear. Alt-right is exactly the same thing. Both terms are useful, since we have an idea of who they refer to, but I'd be careful about letting confirmation bias get in the way.
When you're dealing with such loosely-defined, and large, groups, the words pretty much mean whatever the author needs them to mean at the time. Heck, liberal and conservative are the same way. We generally think of liberals to mean the left, but FA Hayek and Milton Friedman called themselves liberals. Completely different definitions.
I just want to say that I think going out your way to look for some dirt on someone with a differing opinion is a witch hunt if I've ever seen one. At the same time, though, it's fine IMO to argue over these same differing opinions.
"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"Madfoot, I utterly disagree with you, but stick around. Helps break up the monotony of the thread.
That said, these text walls are giving me a headache. <flees>
I'd like to, it's a relief arguing about politics somewhere where I don't feel like I'm fighting all the time or isn't /pol/. Sometimes I have a stick up my butt, but I'll try not to be a dick myself.
edited 2nd Sep '16 3:32:40 PM by madfoot
This says absolutely nothing about you, anymore than Garcon living in a racist hellhole says anything about him.
Anyway, if you look at Trump, and the people he's surrounded himself with and say "that seems reasonable" I don't really have much else to say to you. From "look at my African-American" to "lock her up" to "Second Amendment people" to "maybe we'll deport Hillary" the Trump campaign has endorsed racism and authoritarianism at their finest.
I don't like to throw around the term "fascist" when describing the hard right. I never applied it to Bush. I never applied it to McCain. I never applied it to Romney. I'll cheerfully apply it to Trump. The man has embraced every reactionary, neo-Nazi, neo-Confederate position to come his way.
Dammit people, if you think someone is a troll just stop responding and send a hollar, don't create two pages of "this person is such an obvious troll" posts.
As for the points raised, I'd go though them, but I've had a couple of ciders and would rather just watch some E-sports, I'll get to deconstructing them later.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI don't.
I violently disagree with nearly everything that Madfoot's said, but he's been nothing but civil since he's started posting here.
And frankly, people are too quick to cry TROLL for every dissenting opinion. Hell, two days ago, I got accused of being a troll in the RWBY thread. Me. Everyone knows me.
So let's ease off on that, shall we?
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

I try not to assume someone is a troll if I can help it just because they have unpopular or questionable opinions if I can help it, but I have to admit I sort of regret responding if only because I don't see this conversation ending well. The note about the person's edit history more or less cinches that.
On the subject of states' rights, I think there are some things which you might reasonably say are ok for states to decide according to their own circumstances, but certain things are not negotiable. The right for gay people to marry is one of those things.
edited 2nd Sep '16 3:07:02 PM by Draghinazzo