TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#136876: Aug 31st 2016 at 2:33:54 PM

Trump didn't mention his rhetoric when he was in Mexico City.

There's some protests. One of them called him "another brick in the wall".

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#136877: Aug 31st 2016 at 3:50:14 PM

That's both an insult to Pink Floyd, Alan Parker, Bob Geldof, Gerald Scarfe, construction workers, brick layers, cement, bricks, and Wile E. Coyote.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#136878: Aug 31st 2016 at 4:18:35 PM

What's with the alt-right and Pepe the Frog? How does that even make sense? Am I missing something?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
optimusjamie Since: Jun, 2010
#136879: Aug 31st 2016 at 4:22:02 PM

Most of the alt-right congregates on Image Boards. Hence, the memes.

Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#136880: Aug 31st 2016 at 4:26:56 PM

/pol/ and Reddit memes mostly.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#136881: Aug 31st 2016 at 4:39:05 PM

Yes, but why those specifically? Do they mean anything special, or were they chosen randomly?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136882: Aug 31st 2016 at 5:09:00 PM

To the best of my understanding, they just kinda got adopted spontaneously by the alt right as their mascot. No particular rhyme or reason. Actually, reading up on it, it sounds like it was basically Poe's Law Gone Horribly Right; people on 4chan were annoyed that Pepe was becoming mainstream, so some people decided to go and make it toxic by associating it with neo-nazism so they could have the meme all to themselves.

Incidentally, this particular image is rather hilarious, though not in the way its creator(s) intended. The alt-right is more or less turning the hole the GOP has dug into the party's grave.

edited 31st Aug '16 5:33:50 PM by CaptainCapsase

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#136883: Aug 31st 2016 at 6:12:28 PM

Politico's take on how Donald Trump exposed America's white identity crisis

Trump’s most enduring legacy, and it is an oddly beneficent one, is that he taught America how bigoted it still is, and that many among us who are not intentionally bigoted are willing to tolerate racism anyway, given the right circumstances and stakes. No matter the final tally, nor the recent poll data showing that Trump is beginning to lose college-educated whites, it is very likely that a majority of white voters in November will still pull the lever for Trump, despite a clear bigotry running through much of what he’s said, done and proposed.

The ugly truth is that what Trump is doing—what he stands for, what he is saying—is as American as apple pie, despite the contention of his liberal critics that it is un-American. Nothing Trump has said or done or how he is trying to garner votes is new in an America that was forged in slavery and experienced a century of Jim Crow and lynching. It is silly to pretend any longer that the victory of the nation’s most prominent birther in the GOP primaries was just happenstance and not related to his masterly exploitation of “otherism,” which is simply another way of talking about how people of color are often dismissed as not being fully American because calling them “nigger” is not socially acceptable. Trump simply tapped into and coaxed out of America a racial angst that was already present—and which is now, thanks to him, far less shy about showing its face.

As a result, this election is no longer about all Americans. It is about white Americans. The United States of America is essentially undergoing a white identity crisis. By dramatic numbers, people of color have, in no uncertain terms, expressed their horror about the possibility of what a Trump victory in November would mean. It is White America that has yet to decide which way it plans to pull.

I know that for them, acknowledging the depth of Trump’s bigotry, or even considering a vote for Hillary Clinton, is akin to asking the new mother to admit that her baby really is ugly. It’s easier to deny what’s staring them in the face because recognizing the truth would instantly mean they’d have to ponder the role they played in that creation and what that creation says about them.

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#136884: Aug 31st 2016 at 6:18:13 PM

Why Donald Trump's voters are taking his betrayal in stride

And sure, a lot of what Trump says is ridiculous. But they're savvy enough to know not to take it too seriously. What matters is how it makes them feel.

That applies to all of Trump's promises, on immigration or anything else. What would they think if he were to become president and not create the immediate economic and societal transformation he's promising? What if in his policies he turned out to be just another Republican? Let's say Trump did that, which if you look at what he has said about policy is exactly what he'd do: cut taxes on the wealthy, cut regulations for corporations, subvert the safety net, drop some bombs overseas, and so on — the same list of priorities we've heard from the GOP for decades. At the end of it you'd have pretty much the same results you would have had with Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush. If America hasn't been turned into that paradise of winning where everybody's rich, we've gotten rid of the immigrants, and things look like they did in the 1950s, then what?

Would Trump supporters feel duped, or would they feel that Trump's election was what mattered? What if it's less about results than about that gigantic middle finger they gave to the "establishment," to the liberals, to political correctness, to everyone who thinks a multicultural society is a good thing? Will the very fact of Donald freaking Trump being elected president be enough?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136885: Aug 31st 2016 at 6:42:18 PM

[up] That's one explanation, the one which is far more comforting than the alternative: that Donald Trump has successfully cultivated a cult of personality which is more or less unconditionally loyal to his person.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#136886: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:26:10 PM

I legitimately feel like the very existence of the United States of America is about to end. I am so sorry.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#136887: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:26:31 PM

One fact I've noted in this whole Trump and the Alt-right debacle is that while the higher ups of Trump's campaign are almost comically like caricatures of Hitler's High Command, the ideological center is not the supreme leader.

In Nazi Germany we saw a movement of people willing to march and die for one person.

Then we come to modern day America, and we see the same people, the same disaffected idiots ready to march...for their take that, for their hatred, for their notions of casting down the establishment. Trump is at best a memetic figure, a slogan, a figure to be invoked. His actual ideas and plans do not matter so much as the basic nationalist policies being implemented by him and using him to deliver a hateful fuck you to everyone who has taken the "angry white male's" place in the lime light.

His people are even willing to openly discuss "getting rid of him" if he does not live up to his promises. You never heard of such behavior in the original model.

While there are parallels to the Rise of Hitler, one should not mistake Trump for Hitler. While Hitler was the epicenter of his movement, making it all about his Mein Kampf, his new order, his ideas, Trump is just a fat messenger pigeon carrying a hideously hateful scroll of ideas, and he can easily be replaced.

This situation is vastly more complicated than simply "rise of dictator; stop the dictator", we have a whole mess of problems to examine.

Because defeating Trump at best forestalls things, and in four years the Alt-right will be back to do it all again.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#136888: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:27:28 PM

[up]Yeah, well put. This is gonna go a lot deeper than Trump.

Oh really when?
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#136889: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:38:03 PM

This immigration speech....

I feel like I'm in 1930s Europe...fuck...

New Survey coming this weekend!
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#136890: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:44:20 PM

What did he say, something other than his usual spiel?

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#136891: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:44:57 PM

What next? Is America going to go back to burning witches (Or in this case, Asians, Blacks, Latinos, Muslims and Native Americans)?

NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#136892: Aug 31st 2016 at 7:55:16 PM

[up][up][up] With what I said above in mind, holy shit that speech was Hard Nazi. He's forming the Schutzstaffel, and his audience is eating it up.

[up][up] Besides mass deportations and The Rebirth of the SS, what else should I mention?

edited 31st Aug '16 7:57:50 PM by NickTheSwing

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#136893: Aug 31st 2016 at 8:03:10 PM

He literally stopped short of just saying that illegal aliens would be shot dead.

The goddamn hypocrisy of the right wing is so infuriating. Trump is literally spewing early 20th century fascism, and you motherfuckers are worried about Obama being a dictator?!

And then the heavy implication that if he wins the election he's going to "Deport" Hillary....which anyone with a half-a-brain knows what he means...

edited 31st Aug '16 8:04:49 PM by TacticalFox88

New Survey coming this weekend!
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#136894: Aug 31st 2016 at 8:12:06 PM

[up] They think Obama is a foreign dictator. Moreover they probably know Trump is one, but believe the threat is so great that they will acquiesce to him. Remember the Nazi's only got into power because people thought it was a choice between them and the Communists.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#136895: Aug 31st 2016 at 8:52:04 PM

In other Trump news, he will not actually be speaking to the black congregation at a Detroit church, but simply attend the service, and then give a closed-door one-on-one interview with the church's leader.

And I can already tell you what's going to happen: the same kind of thing that happened with his stint in Mexico. He's gonna play nice because that'll mean somebody will say nice things about him; effectively using a middleman to smooth his reputation by having someone else say "well, he was perfectly decent" while actually changing nothing.

Nonetheless, Trump's move and the church leader himself are under scrutiny by other local church communities.

edited 31st Aug '16 8:53:24 PM by Eschaton

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136896: Aug 31st 2016 at 8:53:47 PM

[up][up] The communists also played their part; they didn't want to cooperate with the liberals, and assumed fascism would just fall flat on its face. That being said, the German liberals had more or less the exact same thought process.

edited 31st Aug '16 8:55:25 PM by CaptainCapsase

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#136897: Aug 31st 2016 at 9:03:08 PM

Trump's speech on NPR with annotated fact checking. It starts out fairly normal (by Trump standards) although with his usual thing of talking about people who were killed by illegal immigrants, etc. This section toward the end is worryingly Hitlerian though:

"...But the police and law enforcement, they know who these people are. They live with these people. They get mocked by these people. They can't do anything about these people, and they want to. They know who these people are. Day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone. And you can call it deported if you want, the press doesn't like that term. You can call it whatever the hell you want, they're gone. Beyond the 2 million, and there are a vast number of additional criminal illegal immigrants who have fled. But their days have run out in this country. The crime will stop, they're going to be gone. It will be over. They're go out, they're going out fast."

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#136898: Aug 31st 2016 at 9:28:40 PM

[up] By "gone" he means dead in a mass grave.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#136899: Aug 31st 2016 at 9:50:46 PM

Normally, everything that's happening would cause the sane people to turn out to vote. Unfortunately, the smear campaign against the Clintons is so thorough—and has been going on for decades—that voters are far more apathetic about this than they should be. A lot of people from my parents' generation seem to think that Hillary is just as bad as Trump, he's just louder. I managed to convince my mom otherwise, but my dad is staying home on election day.

That's always been one of the major problems in this country: Voter turnout. The crazies have a lot of flaws, but their passion does get people to the polls. Every time I mention mandatory voting I get called fascist, but at the very least election day should be a national holiday.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
golgothasArisen Since: Jan, 2015
#136900: Aug 31st 2016 at 10:06:14 PM

This reminds me of something my dad - a huge Trump supporter from day one - once told me: basically, Trump supporters are gonna do their very best to ensure that they vote, and that they vote for the man, the myth, the maybe maniacal martyr. Meanwhile, you've got Hillary supporters, who seem to be more begrudging in their support of her when it comes to some major circles. Therefore, they're less enthusiastic about voting.

tl;dr - low voter turnout might hand Trump the election

"If you spend all your heart / On something that has died / You are not alive and that can't be a life"

Total posts: 417,856
Top