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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#136726: Aug 29th 2016 at 4:16:31 PM

Well, there's different degrees of libertarianism, like any other political belief. Some more sane than others, and with priorities on different things. Though I don't approve of Penn and Teller's anti-environment stances.

edited 29th Aug '16 9:55:53 PM by AlleyOop

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#136727: Aug 29th 2016 at 4:31:08 PM

[up] Nah, son. At least with conservatism, there's *some* merit, depending on the circumstances, on a small scale, and the government in question.

Libertarianism has absolutely no valid positions that doesn't collide with reality and/or human nature.

New Survey coming this weekend!
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#136728: Aug 29th 2016 at 5:10:28 PM

Libertarianism, at its most basic, is "government should be as large as it needs to be and no larger", which isn't a bad thing in and of itself. It's not wrong to push back against government getting over-involved in areas where it does more harm than good. Government for government's sake is, indeed, a bad thing.

The problem is that people who identify as Libertarians tend to think that government does more harm than good in basically everything except military defense and criminal justice. Which is where disagreements arise with... everyone else.

edited 29th Aug '16 5:10:49 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#136729: Aug 29th 2016 at 5:23:24 PM

[up]This. And it really doesn't help clarify matters when the very term "Libertarian" has been co-opted or expropriated by a whole slew of fringe groups, each claiming to be the "Original One True Way."

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#136730: Aug 29th 2016 at 5:37:23 PM

Nah, son. At least with conservatism, there's *some* merit, depending on the circumstances, on a small scale, and the government in question.

Libertarianism has absolutely no valid positions that doesn't collide with reality and/or human nature.

I see it as the opposite. At least Libertarianism is for personal freedoms. What's Conservatism good for?

edited 29th Aug '16 5:37:36 PM by Antiteilchen

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136731: Aug 29th 2016 at 5:45:13 PM

Conservatism in its (sadly near-extinct) classical incarnation for useful for telling those on either side of the spectrum to sit the fuck down and think things through. It was the negation of ideology, closer to what we now call moderates or centrists.

Granted, the progressive left is a lot less crazy than it used to be.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#136732: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:07:36 PM

Classic Definition of Conservatism: A general preference for the existing order of society, and an opposition to efforts to bring about sharp change.

New Definition of Conservatism: A general preference for a previously existing order of society, and a opposition to any sort of change, sharp or otherwise, that has been made to that order, even if said opposition is batshit insane.

I think it's pretty darn accurate myself.tongue

edited 29th Aug '16 6:14:39 PM by kkhohoho

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#136733: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:12:10 PM

When you consider the majority of countries in North America are latino or black (The US and Canada are literally the only ones that are white majority), the racists' arguments become even more invalid.

Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#136735: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:21:31 PM

[up] Mexico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Panama are all Latino, that's 9 out of the 23 countries in North America, and Antigua and Barbuda, The Bahamas, Barbados, Dominica, Grenada, Haiti, Jamaica, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago, and Belize are Black, that's 12 out of the 23 countries in North America. Over 3/4's of the continent is Black or Latino.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#136736: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:22:11 PM

Granted, the progressive left is a lot less crazy than it used to be.

There's no way that's true. They're still the same bunch of clueless clowns, who have no concept of nuance, governing, or realpolitik.

New Survey coming this weekend!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#136737: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:22:40 PM

[up][up]Yes, I understand that, what I don't understand is how that is relevant to anything being discussed and you also didn't broach a new topic of discussion in which that statement is relevant.

edited 29th Aug '16 6:34:24 PM by LSBK

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136738: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:24:31 PM

[up][up]By the progressive left I mean the center-left, not the left-wing/the far-left.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#136739: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:32:28 PM

I think Bat is arguing that the US and Canada are only Capitalist because we are evil racists who want to keep the blacks and latino's down. I always knew you hated the US but what do you have against Canada?

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#136740: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:35:04 PM

[up] No, I meant that it's funny that right-wing neo-nazi nutcases in the US complain about Black and Latinos when they make up most of the continent.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#136741: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:36:02 PM

The continent is kinda irrelevant though to be honest. Like Americans with a capital A means people who live in the United States of America.

Calling Canadians americans is just semantics and being annoying.

edited 29th Aug '16 6:37:03 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#136742: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:38:50 PM

[up][up] How so?

[up] I've seen the phrase "North American Imperialism", prop up a lot amongst the Latin American left, I always wonder why they hate Canada enough to group it in the same category as they do the US, who they obviously hate.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#136743: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:39:48 PM

Cause honestly I think most people just forget that Canada exists.

Oh really when?
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#136744: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:42:07 PM

Well Canada is a horrible place; that place is a giant target for supervillains.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Demonic_Braeburn Yankee Doodle Dandy from Defective California Since: Jan, 2016
Yankee Doodle Dandy
#136745: Aug 29th 2016 at 6:58:21 PM

Anthony Weiner

I'm flabbergasted. It's hilarious due to how utterly farcical it is.

This man could have been President, but he just couldn't stop sexting.

And he'll go right back to sexting after this settles down, because at this point Carlos Danger has nothing left to lose.

FBI says foreign hackers penetrated state election systems.

Any group who acts like morons ironically will eventually find itself swamped by morons who think themselves to be in good company.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#136746: Aug 29th 2016 at 7:36:24 PM

@Bat Go ahead, try telling Latino Americans they aren't white because they aren't WASP and see how that works for you.note 

It was for things like this no one assumed I was Latin American when I was living in Baltimore, and I am a black harried male with a light tan, apparently I was still quite off for what passes as Latino in the US.

Garcon is quite spot on, our left and right for what matters simply forgets Canada exists, at best Canada is the 53th state or US lapdogs if they somehow people remember it exists.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Bat178 Since: May, 2011
#136747: Aug 29th 2016 at 8:11:34 PM

[up] I'm guessing the 52nd state is the UK.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#136748: Aug 29th 2016 at 8:12:32 PM

Bexar County, Texas District Attorney Nico LaHood put up a video on an antivaccine YouTube channel saying vaccinations cause autism.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#136749: Aug 29th 2016 at 8:40:58 PM

[up][up] The most miserable province in the American Empiretongue

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#136750: Aug 29th 2016 at 8:41:17 PM

[up][up]You know, if he can put p ua video saying that vaccinations can lead to autism, then I might as well just put up a video saying not getting a vaccination can lead to rampant stupidity. Though to be honest, I'm not sure I really have to, because he seems to be doing a pretty decent job of making my case for me as is.tongue

edited 29th Aug '16 9:05:27 PM by kkhohoho


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