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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#136376: Aug 25th 2016 at 11:11:19 AM

The Republican party has not "always" been bigoted, even if the alt-Right make it seem that way.
It's not the just Alt Right that's racist, they're just the ones that are blatant about it. The Republican party has been reliant on racist white people for votes since the 60s, when the Southern Strategy flipped the South (up until then a solidly Democratic region) into the Republican camp using opposition to the Civil Rights Movement as a lever. Nixon was the first one to do it, and Reagan codified it into the form that the party has been using ever since.

Part of Trump's (and before him, the Tea Party's) success is that he stopped beating around the bush, dropped the dog whistles, and just started saying out-and-out racist things. The racist fringe of the party was pissed at the Republican establishment for not really doing anything for them in the last 30 years or so (and a black man being elected president offended them on a deep, deep level), so they latched onto him as America's Great White Hope.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#136377: Aug 25th 2016 at 11:11:30 AM

Just because you were Fair for Its Day in the past doesn't mean you are less of a steaming pile of crap today.

Non Indicative Username
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136378: Aug 25th 2016 at 11:13:55 AM

Historically the Republicans want more laissez-faire economics with little-to-no government intervention, due to the belief that government-run economies would lead to corruption as seen in communist states like the USSR and China.
That's not really true. The Republican Party has been the government of the rich and privileged since its inception, owned lock stock and barrel by Big Business. Its adoption of a laissez-faire market ideology is derived directly from the philosophy of its backers, who believe that they are the Lords and Masters of reality and that no stinkin' government busybodies are going to tell them what's right and wrong.

The Democrats, meanwhile, have for a long time been the Party of the People: which tries to improve the lot of the common man even if it means forcing the wealthy to give up a bit of privilege. Of course, it's also got its powerful interests that can capture its ideology, and in the 1860s, it was dominated by plantation owners and other Southern/rural elites, who had significant backing from the poor white population.

The Northern industrialists wanted to modernize the nation's economy and saw the slave economy of the South as standing in the way, so the politics of the Republicans tipped in favor of abolition, while the Democrats, representing the "common white man", didn't hold with that high-falutin' nonsense and wanted to keep their agrarian slaveowning culture.

Of course, once that was over, the Republican Party's backers had no interest in anything resembling egalitarianism; they wanted a steady supply of low-wage labor for their factories. Meanwhile, the Democrats' populist base started to get really pissed off at the labor abuses and other privations inflicted by the industrial economy. This led, in short order, to the New Deal, where the Democratic Party came into its own and stood up for welfare and labor reforms.

The fact that the parties are now flipped in terms of populism is an outgrowth of the mid-20th century, when Democrats were riding high on the prosperity of the post-war period, while Republicans were scheming about how to undo all those progressive reforms and get back to the "natural" order of Big Business running the show. To that end, they cultivated the Democrats' working class white voter base who were increasingly chafing at the march towards civil rights reform. Using religion and racism as wedges, the GOP started to pry them loose, and this came to a head in the 70s when movement conservatism got underway as a direct reactionary response to desegregation.

Along the way, however, the Republican Party's intellectual elite started to get mired into a trap of epistemic closure by the need to develop a governing ideology that would keep the restless fundies and racists in line while still performing what they saw as their proper role: dismantling regulation and the welfare state. It took until this very year for that house of cards to finally come toppling down as their voters rejected the double-think and nominated a candidate who espoused their true values.


The idea that there is some kind of de facto ban on Republican ideology in this topic is nonsense, just as much as the idea that the two major parties are static entities that go back to the beginning of time, and if you support what the Democrats are now, that means you also supported the 1860s version of the party. Let's please not engage in egregious strawman arguments like that.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#136379: Aug 25th 2016 at 11:23:48 AM

[up]There's also Representative Mia Love (R-UT), who is both black and a woman. It's not like the Republican party is entirely crotchety old white dudes, even though some of the more outspoken ones are. And I'm sorry if I seem defensive about all this. I'm not a Republican or even conservative, but I despise Black and White Morality in politics.
I'm right there with you. I hate the knee-jerk reaction that basically consists of "my side is correct and if you disagree you are Wrong and an Enemy of the State." To me, at least, it suggests a lack of thought about what you're actually talking about and is the main thing I hate about politics in general.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#136380: Aug 25th 2016 at 11:25:42 AM

Maybe Hillary is like me and so many others: We hate the process of searching for and applying for a job, but we're fine once we get one and have steady work.

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blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#136381: Aug 25th 2016 at 11:26:37 AM

It's less a case of "We call Repubs wrong because they disagree with us".

It's frequently "We disagree with Republicans because they're wrong."

wrong about racial issues, wrong about marriage equality, wrong about lgbt rights, wrong about women's rights... The list is long. And historic.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#136382: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:14:04 PM

As far as Hillary being a one-term President goes...well, realistically speaking, the Democrats can't hold the White House forever (and to be honest, they probably shouldn't, lest they grow complacent).

In any case, when was the last time that a party held the White House for 16 years straight? Has that ever happened?

Oh God! Natural light!
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#136383: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:19:10 PM

Democrats 1933-1953 (FDR and Truman)

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#136384: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:20:57 PM

FDR and Harry S. Truman — 20 years, Democrat

McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt, and Taft — 16 years, Republican

Jefferson, Monroe, and John Quincy Adams — 20 years, the "opposition" relative to Washington and Adams

edited 25th Aug '16 12:29:09 PM by pwiegle

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TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#136385: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:24:47 PM

Turn on MSNBC NOW!

Hillary is going IN on Trump being a racist.

Shiiiiiit

New Survey coming this weekend!
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#136386: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:25:16 PM

And considering FDR was the only president to get elected four times, I think we can safely say that was something of an anomaly. It just doesn't seem like something that really happens.

Still, there's a first time for everything.

Oh God! Natural light!
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136387: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:27:54 PM

FDR's long tenure can be attributed to WW 2.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136388: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:33:29 PM

@Karkat: the issue is, the GOP being what it is today, that could be absolutely disastrous. The climate change position alone makes them one of the most dangerous organizations in human history, and I don't see that going away as pin as energy companies are a core part of their backer coalition.

Even if they drop the outright denial eventually, it'll be in favor of "the magic of the free market will fix it", which is barely an improvement.

edited 25th Aug '16 12:34:54 PM by CaptainCapsase

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#136389: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:49:47 PM

The one constant I've seen out of the Republicans since Ronald Reagan is this - they'll staunchly oppose (and generally try to dig dirt up on) any President that dares to have (D) next to their name.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#136390: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:53:59 PM

The Republicans have an unstated (but generally understood by almost everyone) rule that Democrats have no right to govern and it's very much an "us vs them" mentality, and considering how diverse the Democratic party is, and how much the Southern Strategy shaped the Republican party, you can generally tie it back to racism as the root cause.

New Survey coming this weekend!
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#136391: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:54:18 PM

Republicans also have a Muslim party chairman in one of Harris County, Texas's districts.

There was some debate, specifically with a Christian pastor saying "his beliefs are the total opposite of ours".

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#136392: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:54:47 PM

Well... that's kind of a thing that the opposition party DOES. The degree to which they'll go is unusual, sure, but not the actions themselves.

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#136393: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:57:29 PM

To the point where the opposition would rather trash the car and strip the wheels than ride shotgun with a roadmap?

edited 25th Aug '16 1:01:51 PM by megarockman

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#136394: Aug 25th 2016 at 12:57:43 PM

[up][up][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol][lol]

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#136395: Aug 25th 2016 at 1:23:20 PM

Yeah, remember a few years back when the Republicans literally tried to crash the government entirely? Since Obama was elected, the Republican talking points haven't been "we disagree with this person and we don't agree with his policies", but more "Obama is an illegitimate president and we mist stop literally everything he tries to do regardless of what our constituents actually want."

That's the thing. The average person on the street wants healthcare and they want reasonable gun control. The Republican leadership have gotten so tied up in their insane ideological purity obsession that they're flat out ignoring what Americans actually want.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#136396: Aug 25th 2016 at 1:56:50 PM

@Ace Of Spades...

You have to be joking. PLEASE tell me you're joking.

New Survey coming this weekend!
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#136397: Aug 25th 2016 at 2:08:13 PM

Well, the opposition party's nominal role is to advocate a dissenting viewpoint. But ideally, they should be the loyal opposition, objecting in principle while keeping the wheels of government turning. Lately, what we've got is sheer contrariness and obstructionism, to a childish and ridiculous degree. In fact, if Obama said breathing was a good thing, the Republicans would hold their breath until they turned all sorts of funky colors.

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sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#136398: Aug 25th 2016 at 2:11:13 PM

In other words they're supposed to be Commander Contrarian, not The Starscream?

edited 25th Aug '16 2:11:24 PM by sgamer82

randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#136399: Aug 25th 2016 at 2:15:06 PM

Precisely. The past eight years the Republican party has taken things way too far, putting party ideology before their duty to the country. Our political system is supposed to be about compromise, not total domination of a particular party one way or the other. I'm pretty sure one of the Federalist Papers discussed that concern, but I can't remember which one.

edited 25th Aug '16 2:16:52 PM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#136400: Aug 25th 2016 at 2:15:34 PM

No. Starscream would never dare to obstruct Megatron, at least not within earshot.

Otherwise, this happens

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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