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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#136301: Aug 25th 2016 at 4:51:01 AM

ISIS claims to believe in putting God's will above the will of the state, but: A) they do not, and B) Hitler Ate Sugar. For example, many people have done evil things claiming they want to help the poor, but this does not mean we shouldn't help the poor.
And furthermore, Daesh didn't come up with the "God's law/will trumps man's law/will" themselves, they stole the line from Islam and use it to cast a facade of legitimacy to their demented pseudo-religious ideology (keep in mind the recent reveals that Daesh's top leadership are former members of the Iraqi Baathist Party that went underground after the 2003 invasion; they're abusing the power of religion over short-sighted unthinking fanatics to create their army).

edited 25th Aug '16 4:52:44 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#136302: Aug 25th 2016 at 5:15:22 AM

I could see a non-H or softcore yuri series about lesbian farmers trying to make it in the countryside.

(to address the tangent last page).

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#136303: Aug 25th 2016 at 5:47:20 AM

Silas, Sweden has been a better NATO member for most of the Cold War than most NATO members, completely unbeknownst to most of the world, including the Swedes. They were only second to the UK in terms of efficient co-ordination and norm-compliance. I can look up the sources once I'm home. There's a whole bunch of relevant literature, and by that I mean peer-reviewed papers.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136304: Aug 25th 2016 at 5:58:27 AM

Military cooperation driven by Russian aggression doesn't mean Sweden is going to violate its own laws and hand him over.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#136305: Aug 25th 2016 at 6:06:15 AM

The whole "give unto Caesar" thing, as explained to me by my pastor: It means respecting the legitimacy and authority of the government, but giving unto God means that you put his will above human's laws.

Sorry if this is part of a mini-derail, but the full context I was taught for the whole incident was that the old Hebrews of the time expected the Messiah to be the leader of an army of God to strike down their enemies and make Earth a paradise, so they were less than impressed by the local carpenter's son running around and claiming to be the messiah. So they started coming up with a bunch of questions to get what they saw as the loony trapped and contradicting either Talmudic law or obscure declarations of God, which would be a gotcha moment and show that he couldn't be the messiah.

One of those was about whether they should pay their taxes to Rome, since paying taxes funded the Roman war machine and supported a polytheistic empire that had little regard for the "chosen people". Saying yes would mean supporting Rome and would probably be in violation of some obscure Talmudic principle that was probably mentioned when I first heard this almost 20 years ago, saying no would be as good as advocating rebellion against Rome and they could sic the Romans on old Yeshua and be done with him already.

Jesus' answer was him wriggling out of the trap: he asked whose face was on the coins they held. When his questioners responded "Caesar's face" then came the "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and render unto God that which is God's". Basically, it could be taken as since paying the taxes had nothing to do with God and was a creation of the Romans, following through with it didn't make you violate God's rules. God and temporal life both have their place, without one supplanting the other or having to choose one to be supreme over the other, or at the expense of the other.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#136306: Aug 25th 2016 at 6:35:51 AM

[up]We know the context. That's why we know the meaning behind the quote is "pay your dues to your government and the law of the land, and pay your dues to your God". That the two conflict is no excuse to refuse either.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#136307: Aug 25th 2016 at 7:13:55 AM

[up][up][up]What Russian aggression? Sweden was "neutral", remember?

But yeah, in a trial as public as that of Assange, they wouldn't get away with violating their own law. It's more likely that his demise be extrajudicial.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#136308: Aug 25th 2016 at 7:32:07 AM

What in the hell is wrong with the Libertarian Party where one of their delegates says he would kill himself if Johnson got the nomination?
They also had people boo Johnson (IIRC) for saying that we shouldn't legalize selling heroin to small children.
have you ever heard a Democrat say, "Fuck this stupid Constitution thing," in service of a policy goal?
No, but we've certainly seen pols from both sides act like that. They're just (barely) bright enough not to say it. grin
the line I remember about Man's Law vs God's Law is "Give unto Cesear what is Cesear's and give unto God what is God's."
This, as with so many other parts of the Bible, is conveniently ignored by most of the people who preach about putting God over the Constitution.
if one is to stay honest, one can't call Clinton "the lesser of two evils" without also calling her the lesser of four evils.
I think that depends on how you define "evil" then. I don't think Gary Johnson is more corrupt than Clinton, but he would be worse for the country.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#136309: Aug 25th 2016 at 7:44:12 AM

Gary Johnson would issue an executive order to repeal Obamacare and the NSA.

So we have a "not a conservative" Trump, "not a liberal" Clinton, and now "not a libertarian" Johnson because an executive order goes against the philosophy of small government.

edited 25th Aug '16 7:45:51 AM by NoName999

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136310: Aug 25th 2016 at 7:50:03 AM

[up][up][up]Sweden's neutrality hasn't kept Moscow off their backs. A few years back Russian aircraft violated Swedish airspace and flew a simulated nuclear strike on Stockholm.

And the US won't try to kill Assange, or Snowden or Manning. The backlash isn't worth it. Assange is a figurehead, Snowden has already leaked everything he has and Manning is in jail.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#136311: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:17:06 AM

It's more likely that his demise be extrajudicial.

Lovely case of paranoia there. You know there's medication for that, right?

Seriously, the USA doesn't need to kill Assange. The man's an accused rapist hiding out in an embassy so he can avoid facing charges. The only way they could kill him would be if he left the embassy, and if he leaves the embassy he's going to be deported to Sweden and locked up.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#136312: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:17:52 AM

I love these conspiracy theories...we're clever and wicked enough to murder these people.

We're not smart enough not to make it ridiculously obvious and public.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#136313: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:20:42 AM

Even if the US was in the business of killing the likes of Assange, there's no need to in his case. If the man ever leaves the embassy, he's going to Sweden to at worst have his credibility destroyed in a trial, at best be locked up for the next decade or so. All the USA has to do to get rid of him is get out of the way and let the Swedes do their job.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#136314: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:25:57 AM

We know the US does engage in (sometimes dirty) covert operations...that's what the CIA is there for after all...but they also have to deal with the ramifications of being a country with a mostly free press and an electorate that needs to be appeased. Snowden and Assange are far too public to be quietly removed.

edited 25th Aug '16 8:27:34 AM by Elle

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#136315: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:29:38 AM

Snowden at least, was born a US citizen and can't be legally executed without a trial. A habeus corpus trial. Assange, I can't speak for.

Of course, the government isn't necessarily above flagrantly ignoring its own laws sometimes.

Still. Constitutional rights and all.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#136316: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:33:28 AM

Even if the US is evil enough to kill the two of them just to be petty and spiteful. Which we're not.

We wouldn't be stupid enough to actually do it. What would that even accomplish?

Oh really when?
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#136317: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:33:51 AM

... Wait, if killing Assange would bring a lot of PR trouble to USA from within, then wouldn't any of the USA's enemies benefit from assassinating Assange and frame Washington for the assassination?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#136318: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:35:59 AM

Who would do that though? Assange and Snowden are Russian assets remember?

Oh really when?
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136319: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:43:00 AM

And hitting an embassy isn't easy. And the consequences for getting caught...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#136320: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:45:29 AM

Seriously. The stereotype for an American is boorish, not evil. And even if it were, Even Evil Has Standards.

If America were evil, it would be the Pragmatic Villainy kind of evil. Assassinating either Assange or Snowden brings no profits of any kind. You can't even make them into racial scapegoats.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#136321: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:55:55 AM

Every time I see discussion about Conspiracy Theories like this, my mind always goes to the South Park episode about the 9/11 conspiracy, where the existence of conspiracy theories was, itself, the conspiracy.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#136322: Aug 25th 2016 at 8:57:04 AM

Isn't that rather self-affirm—

oh right

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#136323: Aug 25th 2016 at 9:06:07 AM

Well, you know, if Trump wins, all bets are off...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#136324: Aug 25th 2016 at 9:07:49 AM

[up]Oh god, please, please please don't do that

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#136325: Aug 25th 2016 at 9:10:03 AM

Yeah, God, if you do exist, and care even the slightest for humanity, please don't let Trump become POTUS.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

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