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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136251: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:45:16 PM

[up][up] The key point is, when we marvel at how "enlightened" and "benevolent" the United States is, we should take into account the underlying factors that make it what it is, and what kind of society that would predict. From that perspective, our society is not that far off from what we expect it to be based on underlying factors, and in my personal opinion, it's a tad bit worse than the underlying factors would tend to dictate. Not that much worse, but there's room for improvement.

edited 24th Aug '16 3:46:00 PM by CaptainCapsase

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#136252: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:46:18 PM

I'm curious if you can manage to explain what underlying factors lead to enlightenment without sounding either incredibly racist or incredibly classist.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136253: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:48:09 PM

[up] That's an extremely active field of historical scholarship: the question of why the Great Divergence happened.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#136254: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:48:23 PM

I'm curious as to if this discussion could move to the philosophy thread?

[up]X4 Better is relative, decades ago people like Trump didn't just get to be candidates, they won.

edited 24th Aug '16 3:49:20 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136255: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:48:44 PM

Seconded.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136256: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:50:37 PM

Strictly speaking, it should be in a history thread, if we have one, though a cursory search doesn't seem to show any.

But yeah, we should probably get back on topic. I'm somewhat worried that Trump's new campaign manager will be a fair bit more effective than Manafort.

edited 24th Aug '16 3:53:28 PM by CaptainCapsase

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#136258: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:56:12 PM

I doubt it, considering how Trump just showed up in Louisiana, diverted resources to himself, and passed around crates of play doh before leaving.

He's a piece of garbage.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136259: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:56:38 PM

And no campaign manager can cause Trump to magically develop impulse control.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#136260: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:57:41 PM

There's a History thread in the Yack Fest section, but people generally don't have long, drawn-out debates there. It's more a collection of "on this day in history" anecdotes.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#136261: Aug 24th 2016 at 3:59:16 PM

Edit: NVM

edited 24th Aug '16 4:00:27 PM by IFwanderer

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#136262: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:03:40 PM

Bannon doesn't want Trump to develop impulse control, his strategy is to let trump be trump. I'm sure in two weeks he'll be replaced with iunno, someone from world news daily.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136263: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:06:40 PM

[up] The issue is, I feel, that Bannon may be better at convincing Trump that acting the way he wants was his idea all along. That's how you have to think if you want to have any chance of convincing a narcissist of something.

I seriously doubt he's going to win, but that's not what I expect him to try and do; what he wants is to ensure the Alt-right remains a persistent force in American politics, presumably in the form of the "Trump News" media network some people have been speculating about.

edited 24th Aug '16 4:08:47 PM by CaptainCapsase

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#136264: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:12:36 PM

I also think Bannon might be more savy than people give him credit for, going by the Bloomberg bio of him that was posted sometime last week. I have no idea how much of his news he actually believes but he managed to work his way into the position he is now with some luck (doing a media deal back in the day that ended up including syndication royalties from a then-little program called Seinfeld) and some balls. He's got a think tank doing muckraking that he's been successfully been able to get reputable outfits like the NYT to run and he really does want to tear the establishment down from the position of being ex-military and seeing things badly mishandled by executives from both parties. He may push nutjob rhetoric but he might be very competent at his job, worryingly so.

Does anyone else think it's odd that it was promised that the new management would "let Trump be Trump" and yet for the past week Trump's been sticking to script? And his campaign is actually refocusing on battleground states?

I'm not sure it isn't too late for them but I think we'll know by the debates whether our optimism is still well founded.

[down]That's possible and if one were going to manipulate Trump, that would probably be the way to do it.

edited 24th Aug '16 4:16:51 PM by Elle

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136265: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:14:19 PM

[up] From my perspective, it's not odd at all; he's convincing Trump that everything is his idea.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#136266: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:15:50 PM

I remain unconvinced that this Trump "alt right" persona isn't an act. That Trump isn't willfully Trolling the Republican party. And may Arceus forgive me for finding that idea hilarious.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#136267: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:17:42 PM

I think Trump's racism and overall bufoonery before his presidential bid is fairly well-documented. I'm not super well-read but his refusal to rent land to black people and the various accusations of sexual assault leveled at him (some from his own ex-wife, no less) have already been mentioned here multiple times.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#136268: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:17:45 PM

[up][up] If Trump gets creamed I could absolutely see him attempting a "Just Joking" Justification for the entire election. If he loses by a decisive but not humiliating (ie better than Romney) margin, he's going to claim Clinton cheated and sulk away. If it's even remotely close, expect dozens of lawsuits.

edited 24th Aug '16 4:17:54 PM by CaptainCapsase

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#136269: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:19:47 PM

I'm not digging it up now but as far back as the 80s he took out an ad in the NYT calling for the death penalty for a group of Affrican-Americans accused of murder or something (who turned out to be innocent)

But as for actual policy statements, he has claimed to support both opposite sides of so many things at this point that it's hard to pin him down on any personal convictions except belief in his own superiority.

edited 24th Aug '16 4:20:51 PM by Elle

thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#136270: Aug 24th 2016 at 4:25:42 PM

he's gone off script a bit in the past week but we've hit what I affectionately call the trump paradox wherein trump has to say something truly fucked up for it be news but he says so much fucked up shit that it isn't sticking in the dailies. Once you've insulted a gold star family and joked about murdering your rival where exactly do you go?

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#136271: Aug 24th 2016 at 5:03:42 PM

Thats why I think Politico is making it a story more about the abilities of the new manager than anything else. The toupee is a MacGuffin at this point.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#136272: Aug 24th 2016 at 6:20:27 PM

Rush Limbaugh is warning of federally funded lesbian farmers invading conservative farming states.
I can hardly wait for the "Lesbian Organic Grown" food to hit the grocery store shelves.
How exactly this guy still has a wife, I have zero clue.
Not seeing the connection between this and the article?
I can't help but feel like there's a not insignificant portion of the movement are just here because they distrust big corporations more then they distrust the government.
I don't think that's a bad way to feel. As long as you aren't ignoring scientific evidence, anyway.
IR hipsters
Are UV hipsters cooler than they are?
I'm still waiting for that Petersen delegate to cut his own throat, like he vowed. Johnson won. It's time for him to put his money where his mouth is and his blade where his throat is.
Dude. C'mon.
Because it sounds an awful lot like you're saying that if Assange was with us and not the Russians we'd let it slide.
We would if he was a college athlete.
I remain unconvinced that this Trump "alt right" persona isn't an act. That Trump isn't willfully Trolling the Republican party.
John Oliver certainly hopes so, judging by his latest episode.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#136273: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:41:53 PM

What in the hell is wrong with the Libertarian Party where one of their delegates says he would kill himself if Johnson got the nomination?

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#136274: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:44:56 PM

Didn't someone in the Green Party whine about how Stein stole the nomination too? What is it with these people and complaining about stolen elections? Do they think every single defeat is proof that the system is rigged against them?

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#136275: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:45:56 PM

Yes, because some people are whiny idiots who won't accept that sometimes, shit doesn't go the way they want it to.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?

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