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Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#136076: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:07:22 AM

Oh, how I wish I could vote with a clear conscious. I'm Catholic, but I'm also pretty liberal about most issues, even those I oppose. I turned 18 last February, and now that I am old enough to vote, what do I get?

A witch and a troll. Oh boy.

My problems with Trump are obvious.

Hillary? I'm actually worried if she is up to the task. She may have experience, but some of her quotes, and her attempts to appeal to younger voters with 'hip' campaign slogans worry me.

Examples of Hillary making stupid quotes? Well, here's one:

"Women are the primary victims of war. Women lose fathers, husbands, sons."

This quote is just so wrong on so many levels. Women have NEVER been the primary victims of war. War has never even had a primary victim. Ever. War doesn't discriminate about who it makes suffer.

"My husband has never lied to me."

I still am not sure if this is genuine. If is is, it has some disturbing implications indeed.

I'm worried Hillary might be a bit out of touch with modern Americans. Mainly the younger ones.

My only choice is to vote for the third party nomination. I don't even know who that is!

I honestly wanted to vote for Rand Paul. He was awesome. He was a guy I could get behind. And then he had to drop out.

Bernie Sanders was my next choice solely because he seemed to be a safe third option. And then, he dropped out.

  • sigh*

The idea of my home state of Michigan seceding has suddenly become very appealing, and this is Michigan we are talking about.....

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#136077: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:12:47 AM

Reporter Charles Blow discusses Trump with Trump supporter Bruce LaVell on CNN and lays out the problem with Trump in plain language.

edited 24th Aug '16 7:13:10 AM by sgamer82

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#136078: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:18:45 AM

Problem is, Trump's supporters have demonized the left so much, they cannot find any fault with Trump. I've even heard of HISPANIC IMMIGRANTS supporting him. And I mean legal Hispanic immigrants. They resent the illegal ones for getting into America easy while they had to struggle to get in.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136079: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:19:17 AM

Women, along with children, the infirm and the elderly, have and do bear the brunt of armed conflicts off the battlefield . They starve, get sick, have to pick up the slack when their husbands and sons go off to fight and/or get killed. And that's not getting into wartime rape.

Total wars typically kill more people off the battlefield than on it. Look at the Thirty Years War, it killed a bigger percentage on present day Germany's population than either World War. And the vast majority of deaths stemmed from civilians starving and getting sick because every army involved pillaged the land to sustain the war effort. And most/nearly all women are civilians, and are among the most vulnerable type of civilian to boot.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136080: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:27:32 AM

[up][up][up] If you are having trouble picking on the basis of the candidates themselves, then throw that out and look at the policies they espouse. I am not supporting Hillary because I have some particular love for her — while the facts that she has dedicated her life to public service, has extensive leadership experience, and would be the first female President are germane, I would vote for anyone on the Democratic ticket over anyone on the Republican ticket given the comparison between the parties' platforms and governing ideologies.

A third-party "protest" vote is essentially wasted given our electoral system, and while we may lament that fact, it's the simple truth that your third-party vote could potentially throw the election in favor of the candidate that you like least. At least, you should consider voting for qualified third-party candidates on down-ballot races — your local and state officials — rather than national races. The best way to get an alternative party in the door is to start from the bottom, not the top.

That said, if you look at the policy positions of the Libertarian and Green parties, they are pretty obnoxious. Sure, the Libertarians want to keep us out of war (a questionable ideology, but that's a separate debate) and liberalize certain social issues (although their commitment to ending the War on Drugs begins and ends at the federal level — the states can oppress you all they want), but they also want to effectively abolish federal government and return us to a de facto gold standard, which would have catastrophic consequences.

The Greens, for their part, in order to distinguish themselves from the Democratic party, have nakedly pandered to some of the most extreme and idiotic ultra-left views, such as the anti-vaxxers and anti-GMO crowd. A party that's supposed to be about responsible and ethical use of our natural resources courting the mindlessly anti-science demographic is not a good sign.

The Democratic platform is not perfect, but politics isn't about "my way or the highway"; it's about getting as much of what you want as you can while compromising enough so that the other players don't flip the table and go home. The Republican party has been metaphorically flipping the table since Bill Clinton took office, and thus has forfeited its right to be given any consideration other than as an enemy.

edited 24th Aug '16 7:43:03 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Advarielle Homicidal Editor Since: Aug, 2016
Homicidal Editor
#136081: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:34:10 AM

Hillary vs. Trump is surprisingly one of the better outcomes. At least, people have one "safe" choice. I mean one of the worst outcomes if not outright the worst is Kanye vs. West. tongue

Only an experienced editor who has a name possesses the ability to truly understand my work - What 90% of writers I'm in charge of said.
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#136082: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:39:34 AM

@Rationalinsanity: And there you go, destroying your own argument. Because my argument about war not discriminating against any primary group still stands.

See, in the Thirty Years War, those 'men' who went off to fight weren't from the HRE. They were all mainly composed of mercenaries. And what we consider barbaric today was actually considered acceptable tactics back then. Pillaging was a way to undermine your enemies war effort by targeting the civilian population, which would mean that your enemy would have even more trouble getting reinforcements for a depleted army on the march.

And in the Thirty Years War, the citizens were far from helpless. They would retaliate against the mercenaries whenever atrocities was committed, and the mercenaries retaliated in kind. In fact, the Thirty Years War actually brought an end to the mercenaries being used in a countries army as the main strength, and Europe started relaying on a standing army, following the example of Gustave Adolphus, the Lion of the North and father of modern warfare. His Swedish Army was well disciplined, and was drawn mainly from the Swedish population, becoming what can be called the first standing army.

And women are far from helpless. Look at the Battle of Kobani. There was such a lack of male fighters for the Kurds, the victory is actually credited to female Kurdish combants.

Civilians actually never became the bulk of casualties in a war until WW 2. And, surprise, surprise, it is still an accepted tactic when it comes to targeting the civilian population of an enemy combatant. America has done it. We may be appalled, but from a military perspective, it's how you can win a war. I don't care what international laws say, nobody bloody listens to them! War is war, and it has no favourites when it comes to it's victims. War has only one victim: mankind.

edited 24th Aug '16 7:48:22 AM by Vampireandthen

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#136083: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:39:42 AM

Hillary vs. Trump is surprisingly one of the better outcomes. At least, people have one "safe" choice. I mean one of the worst outcomes if not outright the worst is Kanye vs. West.
No one contest should have that much power.

edited 24th Aug '16 7:40:38 AM by sgamer82

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#136084: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:44:13 AM

Pretty sure targeting civilian populations is ridiculously illegal and not practiced because it's extremely counterproductive. The only reason to employ a countervalue strategy is because you don't want the target to exist after the war is over.

IE a war of annihilation like WW 2.

edited 24th Aug '16 7:44:33 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#136086: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:45:07 AM

No one contest should have that much power

I can't wait for election day, I keep checking that the clock’s ticking, I just count the hours

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136087: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:45:52 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] The point of this rant escapes me. Are we going to derail into a "War is Hell" debate or talk about politics? Up until the mid-20th century, the majority of wartime casualties have been to disease and other forms of attrition, given the horrible conditions under which soldiers worked. Industrialized mass slaughter of civilians only became possible with 20th century technology, but that's not for lack of trying. In Ye Olden Days, if you had an overpopulation problem, the best way to solve it was to conscript a bunch of starving peasants, hand them rusty pikes, and send them off to get slaughtered.

Nowadays we have asymmetric warfare between modern militaries and insurgents who systematically target civilians, and that looks to become the modus operandi for conflict into the foreseeable future, unless Trump wins and winks slyly while Russia tries to reconquer its old empire.

edited 24th Aug '16 7:48:40 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#136088: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:47:34 AM

It's kind of weird to note that the GOP attacks on Hillary might have worked in the sense that we are all painting her as "the least of two evils" despite the entire "most progressive platform ever" issue.
I know Bernie lost and all, but is Hillary's platform actually more progressive than what he was proposing? Or did you mean "most progressive by a chosen nominee", in which case we might have to look back to politicians from before most of our lifetimes to assess that. I would be a little surprised if Jimmy Carter wasn't the most progressive compared to the status quo at the time.
Fox's continued "we need to purge the entire Republican Party from power, every last one of them!" isn't going challenged
TBH I didn't think it was serious enough to warrant a holler, because it's pretty trolly.
In light of Trump's 'rigged system' rhetoric and probable encouragement of self-appointed thugs to "watch" polling places, who thought this was a good idea!?!
Republican Congress "saving money" measures.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#136089: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:48:57 AM

[up]it's the most progressive for the party as a whole.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136090: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:51:46 AM

[up][up] That sounds a bit like Moving the Goalposts... if we're comparing "progressive" against a uniform standard or against the status quo, it's helpful to say so ahead of time rather than change definitions to suit your argument.

Frankly, about the only thing I dislike about the current Democratic platform is the emphasis on anti-globalization, which is certainly popular these days but doesn't match economic reality. There also isn't enough emphasis on Keynesian fiscal stimulus despite vague promises to revitalize our economy through infrastructure spending.

Regardless, I'll take it in spades over what else is on offer. My biggest worry right now is that the Democratic victory won't be sweeping enough: we'll be saddled with forced compromise with Congressional Republicans at best and complete obstructionism at worst, preventing Hillary from achieving more than a token quantity of her campaign promises. That could set progressive politics back another decade.

edited 24th Aug '16 7:53:29 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#136091: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:52:16 AM

To clarify, my rant was in response to @Rationalinsanity trying to back up Hillary's quote about this "primary victims of war" nonsense.

Since all options seem equally bad, I'll just hope Michigan secedes from the USA without too much trouble. Hopefully, Trump and Hillary are too busy fighting each other to care.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#136092: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:54:05 AM

[up]That is a pipe dream, and Michigan cannot sustain itself.

Wait, aren't you British?

edited 24th Aug '16 7:54:44 AM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136093: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:54:22 AM

[up][up] Don't be ridiculous. Secession is completely absurd, and would be devastating to any state that tried it. Also, the current governor of Michigan is the man who poisoned the water supply of a city for political expedience and then refused to help them fix the problem (see: Flint water crisis). You want that man to lead you into your brave new world of political independence?

The idea that you could support Bernie Sanders' ideology and at the same time unironically champion the Free State of Michigan under the leadership of Rick Snyder is baffling.

edited 24th Aug '16 7:57:05 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#136094: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:56:44 AM

Wait, all options being equally bad?

What sorta bullshit is that?

Oh really when?
Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#136095: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:57:07 AM

My mother is American, and I myself was born there.

Actually, one state that could reasonably farewell as a country is Texas. Of course. They have there own power grid, fairly large, decent population..... Yeah, they would do well as a Republic.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136096: Aug 24th 2016 at 7:59:43 AM

Texas is a net taker of federal transfers and its economic growth is based on attracting people with cheap housing and then offering them poorly-regulated, minimum-wage jobs at companies who've been attracted there with promises of low taxes and minimal oversight.

While it might be one of the few states that could hypothetically be viable as an independent nation, it'd still be a catastrophic mistake to actually try.

For one thing, if it continued to use the dollar as its currency, it would remain chained to Washington fiscally without being able to rely on automatic federal stabilizers — ask Greece how well that worked. If it tried to create its own currency, good damn luck getting anyone to trade in it.

edited 24th Aug '16 8:02:38 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#136097: Aug 24th 2016 at 8:00:16 AM

What's Michigan going to do, join Canada? (I mean, if we had to take over a state it wouldn't be my first choice. Hardly the worst of the bunch though.tongue)

I doubt Michigan is viable as an independent nation, especially with the auto industry in tatters since 08.

And the scary thing is, Clinton is the most honest candidate running. Trump is a fraudster with no impulse contron, Stein is a panderer and a two faced coward, and Johnson is either lying or ignorant of the impact of his policies.

edited 24th Aug '16 8:04:14 AM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#136098: Aug 24th 2016 at 8:02:33 AM

Trading would be a pain in the ass for both Michigan and Texas. Higher tariff on US goods (assuming the US doesn't embargo you into submission), no access to the sea. The South's economy was pretty shit back then and those two states won't do any better.

Not to mention you will have to issue your own currency, and good luck with that.

Non Indicative Username
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#136100: Aug 24th 2016 at 8:04:11 AM

Worth noting: the U.S. auto industry has fully recovered from the '08 crash and is stronger than ever. So much for that myth.

Net job losses in manufacturing are due to increased automation, not reduced production.

edited 24th Aug '16 8:04:43 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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