TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#135276: Aug 14th 2016 at 1:57:38 PM

X3 Trying to enforce the party line, but they have to bribe, make deals with and intimidate, it's not like the UK or similar where the whip can just say "you vote the party line or else we will kick you out of the party and you'll never hold office again".

[up] The Blue Dogs didn't loose because they backed Obamacare, they lot their seats because they ran away from Obama in 2012, some even refused to say if they voted for him.

edited 14th Aug '16 2:01:45 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#135277: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:04:11 PM

The Blue Dogs in 2010? I'd say the people on the left who were so endlessly 'disappointed' with Obama and encouraged people not to vote to 'send a message' played a big part.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#135278: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:06:44 PM

[up][up] And if I remember correctly, even a President's power is limited when it comes to Congress. A President can only persuade — they do not have direct authority over Congress.

edited 14th Aug '16 2:14:02 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#135279: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:18:23 PM

Y'all need a Prime Minster. Like in France.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#135281: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:30:08 PM

The only direct power a president has over Congress is the veto.

At any given point in history one branch may have more power over policy implantation than the others, but that usually has to do with special circumstances. Lincoln amassed vast quasi-legal power during the Civil War which Congress had to retroactively approve of to deal with the crisis, but the minute he was dead they broke from their leashes and ran the country over the head of his successor.

From that point on, leading the nation was mainly a Congress dominated affair until the 1900's, when Teddy Roosevelt became president and started carrying public policy on his own through sheer force of personality and basically told Congress "Deal with it." FDR took Teddy's example to heart and from then on, presidents have usually had more influence in shaping policy than Congress. Granted, there were some exceptions, especially after Johnson and Nixon amassed and abused too much power Congress fought back. Nobody cared what Ford or Carter thought for that reason.

edited 14th Aug '16 2:32:00 PM by Parable

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#135282: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:36:18 PM

So, the officer-involved shooting in Milwaukee...I'm getting the impression that it was a maybe legitimate response by the officer and it boiled into rioting because Milwaukee is just that much of a crappy place to be and stuff boiled over. The suspect was black but so was the officer, the suspect was supposedly armed and fleeing (and the officer's body cam footage supposedly backs it up but it's not been made public) and the official account says officer only shot twice.

Details in the news articles are frustratingly sparse though.

vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#135283: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:39:51 PM

Same.

Sounds like suspect was armed while running from police, cop orders him to surrender firearm, guy refuses and then he gets shot.

Like, by itself, I wouldn't find it worthy or even right to riot over but apparently Milwaukee is that shitty a place that this was a tipping point?

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#135284: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:42:18 PM

I don't even think it's really supposed to be that crappy of a place; it's a solidly liberal city if I recall correctly, and this whole thing seems to be governor Walker playing strongman to get brownie points with the Trump crowd.

edited 14th Aug '16 2:43:47 PM by CaptainCapsase

alioth Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#135285: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:43:18 PM

Speaking as a Wisconsinite, as anecdotal as that might be, Milwaukee is a really shitty place most of the time.

CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#135286: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:44:00 PM

[up] I suppose some parts must be. Tale of two cities and all that.

edited 14th Aug '16 2:44:08 PM by CaptainCapsase

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#135287: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:45:06 PM

The "crappy place" (or at least neighborhood) idea comes from the statements in the articles of people who live there - the predominantly black neighborhood where it took place has extra high poverty/unemployment levels.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#135288: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:55:47 PM

Scott Walker's been putting the screws on Milwaukee from almost day one, so i could see the simmering tensions.

Plus Milwaukee was the site of a shooting of an unarmed man around the same time as the Baton Rouge one (which sucked up more attention because of the rioting), so attention is now being diverted there. I agree riots in support of an armed man aren't a good look at all, though.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#135290: Aug 14th 2016 at 2:59:46 PM

I think the problem is that, if Trump loses, people might blame the RNC for not supporting him. The RNC, however, will claim that it didn't support Trump because he had no shot at winning.

edited 14th Aug '16 3:00:25 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#135291: Aug 14th 2016 at 3:18:37 PM

in my country, Canada, the mainstream Democrats would be considered centre-right

Well that's a grotesque oversimplification at best, an outright lie at worst. Obama, Clinton, Biden, and most of those like them, would be members of the Liberal Party, our centre-left party. Sanders and his lot would be in my party, the NDP. Only guys like Joe Lieberman would have been in the Conservative Party, alongside a majority of establishment Republicans. The Tea Party nuts and the other hardcore conservatives would be largely homeless, or would trend towards some of the hard-right provincial level parties like the Wild Rose. Trump, of course, would be in prison for hate speech.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#135292: Aug 14th 2016 at 3:27:41 PM

You know, what does it take to kill the "the Democrats would be right wing elsewhere" fairy tale? It gets tiring after a while.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#135293: Aug 14th 2016 at 3:29:10 PM

I find it makes for a good rallying cry for those who love going on about how progressive they are.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#135294: Aug 14th 2016 at 3:39:09 PM

They'd be right wing in France, certainly.

Perhaps this meme is outdated, as it was born in the Clinton Era, and most of the world has shifted dramatically to the right since.

With Muslims as their favorite punching balls.

UK labour's even more to the right than the conservatives!

edited 14th Aug '16 3:40:22 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#135295: Aug 14th 2016 at 3:41:28 PM

A Democrat would be right wing in China!

edited 14th Aug '16 3:41:36 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#135296: Aug 14th 2016 at 3:45:54 PM

No they would not. China is fascist.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#135297: Aug 14th 2016 at 3:47:51 PM

[up][up] Not really? Most of the self proclaimed communist states of the world rather quickly dropped most of the left wing economic positions in favor of a command economy not particularly different from the system employed in fascist regimes, or for that matter monarchies.

[up] Centrist Authoritarian is a better descriptor IMHO.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#135298: Aug 14th 2016 at 4:02:13 PM

Long reading: Security researchers have concerns about vulnerable digital voting equipment in a world where election tampering by nation-states no longer sounds completely unlikely.

4 states entirely use old and known-to-be-insecure touchscreen machines, 28 states have them in some counties, and that doesn't include the chance the administrative systems that collect and tabulate the votes are attackable.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#135299: Aug 14th 2016 at 4:15:27 PM

China's not fascist, though it is highly authoritarian. Fascism and Communism are not necessarily mutually exclusive, though it's not overly common for them to coincide, or indeed, even tolerate each other (the only Commu-Fascist regime would likely be North Korea).

China has a variant of far-left (by American standards) pseudo-communistic government IMO, though admittedly, it's abandoned many of its communist principles. It does end up resembling a cronyist regime, though I'd argue that's simply the horseshoe effect at work (they're simply opposite ways of combining state and business)

edited 14th Aug '16 4:15:52 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#135300: Aug 14th 2016 at 4:35:10 PM

How is China not plainly Fascist right now? What are the key practical differences?

edited 14th Aug '16 4:35:45 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

Total posts: 417,856
Top