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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#134801: Aug 9th 2016 at 2:38:23 PM

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I'd imagine that sort of thing would depend on the reactions of Clinton and Trump.

edited 9th Aug '16 2:51:06 PM by Kostya

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#134802: Aug 9th 2016 at 2:59:10 PM

I have to ask... Are there any moderates left? On the one hand, the Republicans has gotten even more regressive this cycle, but on the other hand, the Democrats have released their most progressive platform since the New Deal. There is very clearly a cultural chasm here between the two effective choices here.

Also to address Fighteer's comment, we stop pretending that these people are worth attempting to engage when these people have no chance of winning an election. From the polls I have seen, that is true of Trump supporters, but not all Republicans. After all, a number of Republicans are refusing to support Trump and a few are even throwing their support with Clinton. In addition, I don't imagine there will be too much shifting in the Senate and the House towards Democrats this election.

I do hope that a massive loss from Trump will justify the Republicans cleaning house as it were and reorienting themselves to more centrist ideals like the Democrats did after the landslide victories of Ronald Reagan. Unfortunately, I fear the Republicans will double down and become even more regressive after Trump loses.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#134803: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:01:17 PM

@LSBK: The thing about Wales is that they've been consistently treated like shit by the English. For decades, they weren't allowed to learn the Welsh language in schools, their culture was either stamped out or taken (such as Arthurian legends), and now rich people from England just retire to Wales and start voting for what they decide is best for Wales, not what the Welsh people actually want.

It's like if people from Texas moved to New York en masse and turned it into a red state.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#134804: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:01:35 PM

Yeah, it's hard to define Wales in Brexit.

Nah it's pretty simple, it and Cornwall and the younge angry kids who've gone along with dad because they think mum has been to square and boaring, plus with her gone dad will buy them all the sweets he promised and let them stay up as late as they like.

[up] Did the ethnically Welsh vote to remain then? Because my understanding was that they actually voted leave even more overwhelmingly then the English upper classes who'd moved to Wales. The Welsh working class are angry and bitter towards the establishment, many are bitter enough to have voted leave out of spite against the goverment rather than any actual desire to leave the EU.

edited 9th Aug '16 3:03:32 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#134805: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:05:35 PM

Of course they didn't realize mom was the one who knew where the sweets store is. ;-)

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#134806: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:07:12 PM

So it sounds like the Green Party Convention was pretty abysmal. I think the most shocking thing in this article is its reference to another Green Party candidate. I thought Stein was the only person they had.

edit:

Then there was Sedinam Kinamo Christin Moyowasifza-Curry, a long-shot Green Party presidential candidate who regularly interrupted the proceedings to proclaim that the primary had been rigged against her.

"I didn't win therefore the election was rigged against me!" I love how this accusation is being leveled at Stein who said the same thing about Bernie.

edited 9th Aug '16 3:09:26 PM by Kostya

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#134807: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:09:04 PM

From what ethnically Welsh friends have told me, they wanted to stay in the EU, though they also want to be their own country separate from England. Unfortunately, the English population living in Wales makes that practically impossible, as they'd vote to stay.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#134808: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:09:28 PM

I wish I remember where it was now (The Economist? Pew Trust?) but someone a few years ago did a poll of what Americans really believe and found a large portion of moderates, or people with a mix of beliefs from both sides of the left/right spectrum.

In power though, there are precious few moderates left, though the Dems have not (yet?) gone through an "ideology purge" like what the Tea Party did to the Republicans.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#134809: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:12:45 PM

@Smokey Cut, I'm aware that the Welsh, and plenty of others have been treated badly by the English, historically.

That is not the same thing as going "These people, who took the time to move a place and register to vote shouldn't really count because of the ethnicity." That's not the English, as a whole, illegitimately swaying the vote, that's people, who happen to be English, voicing themselves in a community they reside in like everyone else.

In any other context I feel like most people would be highly uncomfortable with the implication.

Edit:

It's like if people from Texas moved to New York en masse and turned it into a red state.

And there's nothing particularly wrong with this on it's face either. People in red states routinely complain about the same thing, but I assume that's a problem? Or is that only because you're more likely to agree with them? Opinions possibly changing just comes with the influx of people from a specific place.

edited 9th Aug '16 3:19:55 PM by LSBK

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#134810: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:13:37 PM

[up][up][up][up]Radical parties tend to be shitshows internally.

[up][up][up]Brexit also saw a significant generation gap. About old were most of your Welsh friends (if you don't mind me asking)?

edited 9th Aug '16 3:13:56 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#134811: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:14:09 PM

Also going with what was said on the last page. NRA tweeted out this statement

I made the mistake of reading the comments.

During which, I found a perfect example of exactly what we were talking about: Trump supporters don't seem to understand how very few people actually agree with them at this point in time.

"The left doesn't know how 2 stop Trump n the smell of defeat is 2 much :)"

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#134812: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:15:48 PM

This kind of baffles me. I regularly see Trump supporters that complain about how they're discriminated against. Are you guys a majority or a fringe group? Make up your mind.

randomdude4 Since: May, 2011
#134813: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:16:35 PM

@Game Guru

I'm a moderate, though to be honest I'm not sure if you meant just regular voters or actually candidates and officials within parties. I'm a bit more left than right, and I'd still vote Democrat more frequently, but quite honestly if the GOP hadn't gotten so batshit insane I'd maybe even consider voting right on some occasions. They just stray too far into Don't Shoot the Message territory.

edited 9th Aug '16 3:17:00 PM by randomdude4

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#134814: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:20:00 PM

The Dems are only "radical" by American standards. In Western Europe/Canada they'd come across as center-left or even centrists. And what's left of the Blue Dogs wouldn't be out of place in some conservative parties.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#134815: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:27:59 PM

Something that's particularly disturbing about Trump supporters is that they're basically willing to let the country burn because of their hatred of minorities, whether they realize or not.

Like, ok, Trump gives them the racism, but he's also a complete idiot with no political ability whatsoever.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#134816: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:29:27 PM

This kind of baffles me. I regularly see Trump supporters that complain about how they're discriminated against. Are you guys a majority or a fringe group? Make up your mind.

It's the "silent majority" bullshit, along with "minorities don't count." See, everyone agrees with them but is too scared to say it. They're held in thrall of the evil Muslims and Mexicans.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#134817: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:30:50 PM

That or we're all Jewish shills.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#134818: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:39:41 PM

Also to address Fighteer's comment, we stop pretending that these people are worth attempting to engage when these people have no chance of winning an election. From the polls I have seen, that is true of Trump supporters, but not all Republicans. After all, a number of Republicans are refusing to support Trump and a few are even throwing their support with Clinton. In addition, I don't imagine there will be too much shifting in the Senate and the House towards Democrats this election.
I'm talking specifically about the Trump die-hards, not all Republicans. Many are seeing how horrible their party has become under Trump and are having serious doubts, which marks them as people that I could at least have a conversation with.

The House and Senate could indeed see major shifts, as people refuse to vote for any Republican candidate who gets too cozy with Trump. Witness, for example, the overwhelming primary losses in Kansas by hard-line Tea Party Republicans, and the number of Republicans who are running on an "I'm not with Trump" platform. The downballot effects of an unpopular Presidential candidate are very real.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#134819: Aug 9th 2016 at 3:48:54 PM

The Dems are only "radical" by American standards. In Western Europe/Canada they'd come across as center-left or even centrists.

Sanders-style Democrats, sure, but I'd argue that as a whole, Democrats look actually closer to center-right to us Canadians. :-P But definitely heading there for sure.

edited 9th Aug '16 3:49:54 PM by Ghilz

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#134820: Aug 9th 2016 at 4:03:20 PM

Wouldn't 15 dollars be the highest minimum wage in the world.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#134822: Aug 9th 2016 at 4:12:51 PM

Probably but the US also has the strongest economy in the world.

GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#134823: Aug 9th 2016 at 4:14:17 PM

@Fighteer: Those are examples of the Republicans moving to a more moderate position relative to how they were under Obama. That is the voters routing out their extremists and choosing more moderate Republicans in response to Trump being representative of that extremism. Clinton will likely have more moderate Republicans than Obama had to deal with, as well as more Democrats where applicable.

Wizard Needs Food Badly
smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#134824: Aug 9th 2016 at 4:16:20 PM

Bah, fuck Shkreli. The guy is a narcissistic prick who just likes to scream for attention.

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#134825: Aug 9th 2016 at 4:17:14 PM

I wish more pharmacorp CE Os were like him. The quiet ones get away with the shit he pulled unscathed.


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