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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Brilliant use of the fallacy fallacy, by the way. Particularly since in this case the "you too" is pretty justified. Almost all of America's major allies have at some point spied on them. For people to act like it's some sort of outrage for America to spy back is ludicrous.
I think that the only people surprised were the Germans, they seemed to be genuinely upset, compared to pretty much all the other countries, who either knew/suspected already or weren't victiem's of spying (the other 4 eyes).
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranWhen you are the biggest power in the world, you are supposed to be smart enough not to get caught. When you are, you eat your humble pie and you don't behave like a prick saying "they started it", that just makes you look even worse.
I'm not so sure a guy just flat out dumping tons of documents on everyone is "getting caught" per se.
But even then, a huge problem with the Snowden reveals is the lack of context to the documents. The spying on Merkel was from the Bush administration prior to administrative reforms from the FISA act. That changes the equation immensely.
And guess what? The United States failed with that, completely and utterly. Sure, Snowden won't be able to gain more information about the United States, but he's also in one of the few places where the United States can't get at him. He can even make 'public' appearances outside of Russia via a very ingenious method of what is effectively a mobile device on an R.C. Car.
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But the Snowden outrage in the U.S., as I remember it, wasn't from learning that they spied on Germany, it was from learning that they were spying on their own citizens. It's quite hard to claim that you act for national security when you are watching your own - and not by specifically targeting possible foreign agents.
That's why you can't compare Snowden to a Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy mole. Before trying to "deal with him", you should start by searching where the fuck it went so wrong that spying on your own citizens became a normal procedure.
So it begins.
http://www.vox.com/2016/8/5/12386128/trump-clinton-biased-polls
Except nothing he did could be described as "dumping", he worked with the press and tried to vet and redact documents properly to avoid damage. You want dumping then look at what Wikileaks just did, that's dumping, what Snowden did (even with all his other faults) was not dumping.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
...Wait. What the hell? That was a thing? Seriously? Romney's followers made up their own polls? (Only glanced at the headline of the article).
...Should I care at this point? No, really, should I care? I am honestly asking if I should keep being worried about politics at this point.
I'm a 19 year old Muslim living in Baton Rogue and about to go to college (LSU). I've been avoiding the news lately because a lot of what the news is focused on is really stupid and I much prefer watching shows like John Oliver because, hey, he makes the usual stupid ludicrous and much more endurable to listen to. I honestly want to know if I should start watching the news again and try to find out more about today's politics or should I just focus on stuff I actually care about like Star Wars EU minutiae, whether BB:CF will get an English dub, and finishing the Codex Alera, Everworld, and the Animorphs.
Sounds like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Good.
edited 6th Aug '16 4:27:20 PM by fredhot16
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Oh, yeah, forgot to mention: I'm going to be voting for somebody who isn't a racist moron (corrupt and old guard, maybe, please correct if I'm wrong) when elections come by. Just want to know if I should care or just wallow in political apathy until the election?
You know, this just reminded me of something: doesn't half of the promises that trash makes require Congress to pass laws to enforce said promises? Wouldn't balance of power have any significance against this moron?
edited 6th Aug '16 4:34:38 PM by fredhot16
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.@Ambar: Any sort of whistleblowing against a government is going to get said person on said government's shitlist, because whistleblowing is, by definition, revealing something that an organization or a government does not want people to know. Regardless of what the United States Government or you might think, I believe what Snowden did was morally right. There is a difference between what is legal and what is moral. If you refuse to either accept that or refuse to argue why it isn't morally right to reveal that a government is spying on its own citizens, then I'm not going to continue this line of conversation. You've said your opinion and I've said my opinion.
edited 6th Aug '16 4:44:52 PM by GameGuruGG
Wizard Needs Food BadlyI'd image that most governments spy on their citizens in some capacity. I'd have to know exactly what they were spying on and what measure and lengths they took before calling it "immoral". Most rights have limits on them, and I don't see why the right to privacy would be any exception, as long as they aren't sharing what they learn carelessly. Arguing otherwise just comes off as really naive to me.
edited 6th Aug '16 4:47:29 PM by LSBK

Yeah, any respect I might have once had for Wikileaks has evaporated. It's obvious Assange is being vindictive and even if not collaborating directly with Russia, a willing tool.