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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#134352: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:39:31 PM

No it doesn't, unless you think discrimination against atheists is ok.

What if said atheist is playing on their supposed affiliation with a particular religion (such as Judaism) in order to win votes, despite the fact that they themselves do not actually believe in God? At that point outlining their hypocrisy is permissible. Sanders frequently allayed fears about his Israel positions by citing his Jewish heritage. If he's actually an atheist, that becomes a meaningless defense.

I'll note here that I myself am an atheist.

@ironballs

The DNC didn't collude with the Clinton campaign. There's nothing in those emails that indicates collusion with the Clinton campaign. You are now making things up to fit an aggrieved Sanders' narrative.

As for the other thing...that's in the same territory as the Vince Foster and Benghazi allegations. Clinton colluding with ISIS. Please. That it's coming from The Observer which is owned by Trump's son-in-law just makes it even stupider.

edited 5th Aug '16 7:43:42 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#134353: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:41:40 PM

Jewish atheists are a thing. Like, for a lot of American Jews, being Jewish goes beyond the religion, apparently.

I don't know if that's Sander's claim, but if he did say something like that, he'd hardly be unique.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#134354: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:42:40 PM

[up][up][up]I'm not sure how that's supposed to be a disagreement with anything I said? Saying "he's an atheist" isn't discrimination. Saying "you can't trust him because he publicly claims to be Jewish but is actually an atheist" isn't discrimination because you're calling him out for lying to people. Saying "he's an atheist, so you can't trust him" would be discrimination, but that's not what they said.

edited 5th Aug '16 7:42:49 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#134355: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:45:18 PM

You can be ethnically Jewish, but not religiously Jewish.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#134356: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:49:05 PM

Ugh, this is shaping up more and more to be an election that I'd love to see a "None of the Above" option listed, as the French company, La Farge, is currently under investigation for supplying weapons to ISIS, and there's allegations that Clinton (who'd served as Director in the '90s) might be directly tied to it. It might be Assange pointing that particular allegation at her, but he's also promising more leaks that prove the allegation.

I mentioned this above but it got lost in the Sanders' religion debate. The article being cited is from The Observer. The Observer is owned by Trump's son-in-law, who is also one of his top advisors. Over the course of the election it has been the most pro-Trump of all the New York papers. It also unironically features such headlines as "Obama is definitely a Muslim", and tries to debunk any and all claims about Trump and Russia. Not exactly a reliable source.

Then there's the fact that it's getting its information from Assange, himself not a reliable source. We are talking about a man hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy to avoid sexual assault charges and who freely admits he wants to sabotage the Clinton campaign and loathes the USA.

So we have an unreliable, partisan source, filtered through an unreliable partisan source. Sounds legit.

edited 5th Aug '16 7:50:34 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#134357: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:51:38 PM

[up][up]That's what I was trying to say but couldn't think of the words for some reason.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#134358: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:55:44 PM

[up]

In either case, the phrasing of the email was definitely angling for something to damage Sanders with - and not for "he's lying about being Jewish when he's really atheist!", as it directly addressed the idea that his being confirmed as atheist would, in and of itself, cost him points among the Baptist groups down south. And in either case, it was the Democratic National Committee that was doing it, when people held the expectation that they would remain impartial.

[up][up]

I wasn't aware of that - however, Assange has alleged direct ties between the two and has promised further email publications to back the claim up. And like I mentioned before, it certainly wouldn't be the first time in US history that a well-intentioned case of Enemy of My Enemy backfired spectacularly. Edit: I'm reserving overall judgment for after the emails are actually released and people can peruse them (context is key, after all, e.g. Khizr Khan's "endorsement" of Sharia Law), but I just wouldn't be shocked at this point.

edited 5th Aug '16 7:59:15 PM by ironballs16

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#134359: Aug 5th 2016 at 7:57:20 PM

And since Assange is a raving nutjob you believe him why...? Seriously, the man's wanted on rape charges, and admits to having a highly partisan agenda.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#134360: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:20:49 PM

Clinton served on the board in the 90s right. What possible connection could she have to ISIS? They didn't exist at the time.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#134361: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:21:56 PM

So Clinton is somehow connected to a company she worked for in the 90s because said company might have supported ISIS. Which didn't exist, in its earliest form, until the mid 2000s.

This theory isn't even worth discussing.

edited 5th Aug '16 8:22:44 PM by Rationalinsanity

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#134362: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:25:12 PM

It's almost like we're playing 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon here....

edit:

Trump also finally endorses Paul Ryan and Mc Cain in a statement that makes hostage statements sound authentic:

edited 5th Aug '16 8:35:14 PM by nightwyrm_zero

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#134363: Aug 5th 2016 at 8:43:42 PM

The Observer hyped up the connection between LaFarge and ISIS, but they did pay "taxes" to ISIS in order to keep operating there, which is literally funding terrorism, even via extortion.

And to reiterate, I'm waiting for that supposed email linking Clinton and ISIS - I doubt it's anywhere near so direct as that, and likely occurred before they actually became ISIS, but it's still not the best reflection on her foreign policy credentials. Enemy Mine has shot us in the foot way too many times this century, especially in regards to the Middle East. Iran with "Operation: Boot", Afghanistan with our support of what later became the Taliban against the USSR, Libya with our support of Gaddafi, Egypt with our grudging support of Mubarek, Iraq with Saddam [prior to 1990]... the list goes on, so there's definitely precedent for decisions that "Seemed like a good idea at the time", and I suspect this is likely one of those cases.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#134364: Aug 5th 2016 at 9:02:11 PM

I'm pretty sure someone in the GOP just typed up those papers he's holding, handed them to him, and went, "Here, just read these and try not to choke on your hypocrisy."

I also think the fact that he's holding the papers and obviously reading from them in the press conference is a subtle protest against the words he's saying. He's making it as obvious to everyone watching as he possibly can that he considers this to be bullshit.

edited 5th Aug '16 9:03:07 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#134365: Aug 5th 2016 at 9:27:28 PM

If pointing out that someone is an atheist to discredit them is "cynical but okay", then pointing out that someone is jewish, gay or of mixed heritage to discredit them would be too. But the latter are rightfully seen as discriminatory.

Praying on prejudices in the voter base like that is validating and reeinforcing these beliefs.

edited 5th Aug '16 9:27:59 PM by Antiteilchen

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#134366: Aug 5th 2016 at 9:28:09 PM

[up][up]And then if he gets elected, (God forbid,) he might just go and denounce everyone he previously endorsed. Nothing they can do to stop him now after all, short of impeachment.

TRUMP: Hey, you know how I said, you know how I said Paul Ryan, John Mc Cain, and everyone else, yeah, all of them really, that they were such great guys? Yeah, well, forget everything I said about them over the last few months because, yeah, because everything I said about them, they forced me to say it, yes they did, they forced me to sing their praises, those fucking assholes. Truth is, those guys are tools, and you can trust me when I say that by the end of my first term in office, all of those guys, you hear me, all of them will have been taken out and shot. Not literally of course, but you know what I mean, right? You know what I mean. And anyone else who's a tool, they'll be taken out and shot too, right in the ass! If you know what I mean. Now, for my first act as President, well, let me tell ya', yeah, let me tell ya' a bit about me and Putin...

edited 5th Aug '16 9:29:16 PM by kkhohoho

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#134367: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:19:25 PM

And to reiterate, I'm waiting for that supposed email linking Clinton and ISIS - I doubt it's anywhere near so direct as that, and likely occurred before they actually became ISIS, but it's still not the best reflection on her foreign policy credentials.
No, it's pretty patently bullshit. Even if this company is directly funneling money to ISIS in order to better kill the Great Satan, Clinton's involvement with them was 25 years ago and has absolutely nothing to do with whatever they're getting up to now. Unless you can tie some sort of malfeasance to Clinton's tenure, it's a painfully transparent attempt to paint her as guilty by association — and even that connection is tenuous. It's another manufactured controversy, and this one's on even shakier ground than Benghazi or her email server.

If pointing out that someone is an atheist to discredit them is "cynical but okay", then pointing out that someone is jewish, gay or of mixed heritage to discredit them would be too. But the latter are rightfully seen as discriminatory.
Again, it's not the (presumed) fact that he's atheist they were discussing, it's the fact that he said he's Jewish when he's (possibly) actually atheist. It's not being atheist that they're highlighting, it's that he lied about it. If someone claimed to have mixed heritage but you find evidence that they're not, would calling them out on that be discriminatory?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#134368: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:28:06 PM

Wait a minute...ISIS existed 25 years ago? Did I step into a time machine or something?

Leviticus 19:34
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#134369: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:29:42 PM

No, they didn't. Not even their base components properly existed 25 years ago.

That's why this is ridiculous.

Oh really when?
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#134370: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:32:04 PM

Isn't Sanders ethnically Jewish? So he can be both Jewish ethnically, and an atheist religiously.

edited 5th Aug '16 10:33:01 PM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#134371: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:33:00 PM

He's ethnically Jewish, yes. Though I think they mean spiritually Jewish.

Leviticus 19:34
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#134372: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:49:36 PM

[up]Who cares? It's patently stupid. -_- Why should faith or ethnicity trump your policies?

edited 5th Aug '16 10:51:33 PM by Euodiachloris

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#134373: Aug 5th 2016 at 10:54:24 PM

Because I am a Republican?

edited 5th Aug '16 10:55:11 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#134374: Aug 5th 2016 at 11:43:10 PM

[up][up]Because the public cares about it. It informs them, generally, of how they will view some things (unless they are shown to passionately take a different tack), so that they can filter out who they know they will disagree with. Only after that filter do people make efforts to know their leaders.

Sad, but true.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#134375: Aug 6th 2016 at 1:15:20 AM

Trump announces all-male economic team. Mostly CEOs too, only one is apparently an actual economist.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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