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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#133951: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:23:17 PM

[up]National pride-to me, anyways-means wanting to make your country a better place. So, a person in Saudi Arabia with national pride would theoretically want to stand up to injustice within the nation.

To put it another way: "Wash the flag, don't burn it".

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:23:47 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133952: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:24:07 PM

[up][up]Stop making Canada sound tempting!

Jokes aside, I'm not a boy anyway.

[up]I suppose the Founding Fathers should just stay a British colony and turn Britain into a democracy.

America was founded, and populated, by people who didn't love the country they originate from. If I were a patriot I wouldn't be an American.

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:27:20 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#133953: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:24:32 PM

When you actually care about a place you're probably more likely to try and correct it's ills and make it better, I'd assume.

There are probably studies about this, though.

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:24:58 PM by LSBK

wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#133954: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:28:49 PM

You sure? The racists, sexists, homophobes, and privileged are always gravitating to conservative parties. Everywhere. They conserve the existing status quo and hence the privileges that come with it.

I'm far from an expert on this, but to my understanding, in the case of America, the only outlet that conservative thinkers have for their ideas is the republican party. Those ideas are mostly about economics and the influence of the government and don't have much to do with the white identity politics that has taken over the GOP for some time now. While I suspect that many of those conservative thinkers may not quite grasp the structural and systemic inequalities in american society, apparently they abhor racism about as much as the average person with a working conscience and were deluded into thinking that the voterbase of the GOP was with them because of policy, not racism.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#133955: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:29:17 PM

[up][up][up]The American national identity predates the American Revolution. There's a reason why the people who rebelled against the British Empire called themselves "Patriots".

[up]Most Conservatives dislike racism and view it as anti-American. However, they tend to define racism differently than some people do (for example, they believe that affirmative action is racist to a degree). Also, while Republicans aren't inherently racist, the Democrats are better at being unappealing to white supremacists. For example, while voting against Obama doesn't mean you're racist, there are racists who vote Republican because Obama is black.

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:33:44 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#133956: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:32:28 PM

What self-reliance means in this context is: "I have a problem; what can I do to fix it?" Rather than: "What can the government do to fix this problem for me?"

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#133957: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:35:28 PM

[up]thst You aré responsable of what happen and nothing moré, everything else is whinning

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#133958: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:37:50 PM

[up][up]That assumes the person can fix the problem. If the problem is poverty and there aren't any jobs available then you can't do a damn thing.

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:38:01 PM by Kostya

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133959: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:42:22 PM

There's a very simple solution to make your party unappealing to bigots. Champion minority rights, support same sex marriage, get rid of those bathroom laws, tell cops to not just shoot anything black, etc.

But nooooo, they need those votes so much that they outright appeal to those bigots.

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:43:25 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#133960: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:53:52 PM

I would argue the problem is the left's tendency to invoke Hitler Ate Sugar. "Will you vote for Obama or are you a white supremacist?"-type thinking unintentionally drove white supremacists into the Republican Party, who now make up Trump's voter base.

Leviticus 19:34
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#133961: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:53:57 PM

I liked those articles about Republican intellectuals deeply committed to small government and trickle-down economics drinking themselves to death over what a mistake it was to ally themselves with white nationalists in order to get the votes, all those decades ago.

Regarding ideologically pure conservatism though, you have to admit that on the face of it "the government owes you nothing: deal with your own problems" doesn't exactly sound friendly, and as a party slogan only really appeals to those who are already successful. Which, given the economy, is a vanishingly small percentage of the population.

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133962: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:56:14 PM

[up][up]That still doesn't change the fact that the Republican Party is a White Supremacist's wet dream and the Democrats are the opposite of it.

And if you are over 18 and knowingly appeal to bigots, then it's your fault you are appealing to bigots, and more importantly, it's your fault you are trying to screw over the underprivileged at every opportunity.

edited 2nd Aug '16 6:00:04 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#133963: Aug 2nd 2016 at 6:07:19 PM

[up]Nah, I consider the antithesis of the Republican Party's ideals in theory would be Trump-a highly entitled Dixiecrat that the Republican Party was designed to defeat.

Also, there's a lot more nuance to it then that. For example, Politically Correctness Gone Mad is a thing, and worse, it's being weaponized. You know how Bernie supporters got baseless accusations of being sexist? Basically that's what's happened with the Republicans on a massive scale over a long period of time. Thing is, actual bigots also exist, and a major source of problems in society right now is failure to recognize this.

edited 2nd Aug '16 6:10:07 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#133964: Aug 2nd 2016 at 6:12:41 PM

The main issue with the whole "self-reliance" thing and other similar individualist philosophies is that they tend to assume that everyone has a level playing field and that certain groups won't face significantly more problems in trying to "make their own way"; this tends to get brushed off as "well everyone has their own problems" which is just ignoring the fact that things are blatantly more unfair for certain people and they shouldn't be that way. Any attempt at rectifying this playing field is treated as an unfair advantage certain groups have, when it isn't that simple.

As Clarste said, it's not an appealing philosophy in this economic climate, and according to one article posted a while back, it is the main challenge of the GOP going forward if they want to clean up their act and stand on their own feet as a party free of white supremacism. Which is to say, they need to find a way to sell that philosophy to an increasingly black and latino America, who finds social democracy far more desirable.

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133965: Aug 2nd 2016 at 6:12:42 PM

[up][up]You know what's worse? Being accused of being racist/sexist/homophobe/transphobe or not being able to marry the one you love, or having your gender rejected, or being persecuted because of your faith, or getting shot because you have too much melamin?

The Republican Party may not be bigoted at its core (somehow I doubt that), but its actions sure are.

edited 2nd Aug '16 6:16:51 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#133966: Aug 2nd 2016 at 6:19:17 PM

Conservative intellectuals may not be bigoted, and parts of the GOP voterbase are probably with them on intellectual reasons, but Trump's rise proves that the party is mired in white supremacism and that this was a big part of the republican party for a while, if not explicitly.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#133967: Aug 2nd 2016 at 6:40:26 PM

Republican intellectuals deeply committed to small government and trickle-down economics

are bigots of another kind: the economical sort. They believe, very hard, in something that has been discredited, that hurts the economy overall, leaving everyone worse off. They are dangerous, dogmatic, fanatic zealots with delusions of moderation and intellectual integrity.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#133968: Aug 2nd 2016 at 6:47:52 PM

[up] Oh it doesn't leave everyone worse off in the short run; just the vast majority of the population, and I suspect a great many of the GOP's intellectual base has no illusions about the consequences of their kleptocratic economic policies, nor concerns about the long term fallout that will not affect them personally.

edited 2nd Aug '16 6:48:26 PM by CaptainCapsase

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#133970: Aug 2nd 2016 at 7:15:55 PM

Other than Trump continuing to shoot himself at the foot at every possible opportunity? Seriously, the last few days, let alone the last week, have been ridiculous, and managed to overshadow Clinton's own seriously misleading statement about the email investigation.

You can just scroll down the list and find headline after headline, missteps at every turn. And Clinton is very slightly ahead in a couple polls in states like Utah and Arizona. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it certainly seems like something is going wrong, if it's that close in what I thought were solid red states..

edited 2nd Aug '16 7:19:04 PM by Eschaton

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#133971: Aug 2nd 2016 at 7:54:22 PM

Reuters polling is reporting an increase in support for Clinton.

However the party of people who use "Cuck" in conversation are currently engaged in a bitchfest on the way the polling formula has been changed to eliminate the "neither" option.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#133972: Aug 2nd 2016 at 8:22:00 PM

The knights who say cuck.

I am still at awe how Trump supporters still manage to get everywhere and have their bile being pushed up to the top comments.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#133973: Aug 2nd 2016 at 9:07:23 PM

Like I posted earlier, Clinton received a net boost of 9 points since the convention (split evenly with her going up and Trump falling). That's pretty huge compared to normal convention boosts, whereas Trump's was relatively small.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#133974: Aug 2nd 2016 at 9:13:53 PM

Trump has had an abysmal week, so I doubt his polling will go up much. He insulted the parents of a man who died a hero in the military, he took a Purple Heart that was offered to him and said that he always wanted one (so he always wanted to get injured in combat? Really?) and he kicked a baby out of a rally 10 seconds after saying that he loved babies. This happened a week after he became the official candidate. There's going to be a laser focus on him for months now, and at some point, he's going to be confronted with the international reputation he has. That most of the rest of the world thinks he's genuinely insane. I'm wondering if he'll be at all able to maintain momentum going forward.

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#133975: Aug 2nd 2016 at 9:23:51 PM

That the rest of the world views him negatively, will just be viewed as a good thing by his authoritarian supporters. They thrive on antagonizing the other.


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