TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133926: Aug 2nd 2016 at 3:55:22 PM

Me, this election season makes me hopeful to see the GOP burn. I'll probably be disappointed, but still.

Non Indicative Username
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#133927: Aug 2nd 2016 at 3:58:45 PM

Does anyone have any predictions about what else Wikileaks could have on Clinton?

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#133928: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:02:36 PM

Nothing so big that it hasn't been said a thousand times before, otherwise they'd have already released it. It's probably just more e-mails that don't really say anything.

Cid El Cid Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Hiding
El Cid
#133929: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:05:39 PM

There something actually good about the Republican Party in general?
Its economic and political positions are good for a lot of people. For example, their belief that a small government is better for their interests, that the country should look out for itself before the rest of the world (economically speaking), the idea that the military and those who serve it should be treated with the utmost respect, among other things.

The main thing to remember is that republicans are defined (or should be, in any case), by their conservatism. This brand of republicans may not believe that all change is evil (though some sure do) but they prefer to go at it slowly lest they get burned.

As they say: liberals are needed to avoid stagnation and conservatives to stop the liberal from jumping off a cliff.

What I really hope is that the party will wake up and kick the bad apples out note  or that the most toxic members of Trump's base will leave the GOP after he loses the election, blaming them for working with Clinton to rig the election against their messiah.

If the latter comes to pass, I'd expect them to form their own party/coalition and remain a thorn on the Democrats and Republicans alike, but keeping them relatively harmless by making them a single-issue party.

pwiegle Cape Malleum Majorem from Nowhere Special Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Cape Malleum Majorem
#133930: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:09:01 PM

On the home front here in PA...

Some local (county-level) GOP party officials have resigned, because Trump.

They say he doesn't represent their party or their values and that he's unfit to be president. "I can't be supporting Donald Trump and whatever his views are this week," said committeeman John A. Fielding. William Cinfici, chairman of the Republican City Committee (Reading, PA) said, "I can't be associated with Trump in any way."

Connor J. Kurtz of Amity Township said, "I will not vote for a vulgarian who lies with impunity. I will not vote for a crook whose business bankruptcies are rivaled only by his moral bankruptcies."

This Space Intentionally Left Blank.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#133931: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:12:03 PM

Question: Can state parties revolt against a national party in the US? Or is resignation the only way forward.

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133932: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:13:04 PM

Trump and his cronies aren't the only rotten apples of the Republican.

Non Indicative Username
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#133933: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:15:35 PM

As they say: liberals are needed to avoid stagnation and conservatives to stop the liberal from jumping off a cliff.

This has been patently false since at least the Bush years.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133934: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:17:57 PM

The US has been behind with human rights for too long.

Non Indicative Username
SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#133935: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:18:20 PM

Now, even Christie is against Trump's attacking the Khans. No, seriously.

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#133936: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:23:11 PM

But in seriousness, to describe what's "good" about Republican ideology, here's a list of things. It's really a list of interests, but knowing someone's interests often makes them more sympathetic:

1. They're dedicated to protecting American national pride, which I think is a noble goal.

2. They seek to protect the image of law enforcement and the military, which I think is important in an age where Cool People Rebel Against Authority.

3. They seek to promote self-reliance.

4. They value duty, tradition, and bravery.

These are the 4 "best" things I'd say about the Republican party.

edited 2nd Aug '16 4:31:18 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#133937: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:30:20 PM

2. They seek to protect the image of law enforcement and the military, which I think is important in an age where Cool People Rebel Against Authority.

That's a bit of a Dead Horse Trope. Nowadays people don't rebel for the sake of it: they do it because the authority's choices genuinely don't sit right with them. Furthermore, the military and the police, the force-using arms of the government, need to be held accountable for their actions, as much so as any other branch whose work is a matter of life and death.

No man is an island: self-reliance comes with caveats. People should not be drags if they can help it, but they should be able to count on each other, and, more importantly, they should be able to recognise when they owe some of their success to others, and acknowledge it.

I can't say that I find tradition and duty to be valuable unto themselves, not without a thorough knowledge of the whys and hows of their demands. Example: the Confederate Flag.

edited 2nd Aug '16 4:30:56 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133938: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:31:10 PM

What the Republicans see as "national pride" I call it jingoism.

And seriously, it's the Republicans that made this "Blue Lives Matter" bullcrap. Law enforcement must earn its reputation by not shooting innocent black people.

edited 2nd Aug '16 4:33:54 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
wehrmacht belongs to the hurricane from the garden of everything Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
belongs to the hurricane
#133939: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:32:17 PM

2. They seek to protect the image of law enforcement and the military, which I think is important in an age where Cool People Rebel Against Authority.

It's not about Cool People Rebel Against Authority so much as an acknowledgement that there are a lot of problems with law enforcement and their treatment of certain demographics. That's more or less just a symptom of a larger problem, but it is what it is.

Also, I'm basically in agreement with what the two posts above said.

I might also add that "self-reliance" seems to translate as "we don't care about or don't believe in systemic and structural inequality, so we're going to stimy any attempts at addressing those and leave things that should be fundamental rights to individual states".

edited 2nd Aug '16 4:33:45 PM by wehrmacht

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#133940: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:41:13 PM

Self reliance is an outdated concept to me. We're long past the point where we're living in cabins on the frontier with our nearest neighbor ten miles away. The life of every single person in this country is supported by others whether those people are doctors or road crew workers.

Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#133941: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:55:41 PM

Upholding national pride certainly sounds like a noble goal, but there is a line between patriotism (healthy love of country) and nationalism (unhealthy obsession with country).

And Democrats are pouncing on the opportunity to become the party of patriotism and civic duty, now that the Republicans have so blatantly drifted into nihilistic nationalism that requires a savior from above.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#133942: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:56:14 PM

Duty and tradition are important things for a society to have. Mind you, it isn't always a good thing, but it usually is. In the case of the Confederacy, they weren't exactly patriots (though some of them had a sort of state-level loyalty). Having said that, there are legitimate questions of who deserves your loyalty. In general, I would say the Confederacy is a good example of almost (but not quite) opposite ideals of the Republicans. Confederates turned against their country, relied on slave labor, and were generally not meritocratic in any way.

A good way of describing it is that Republicans are channeling a sort of "eagle scout" mentality. In practice, this hasn't been working out well for them. Trump is basically the opposite of a boy scout.

[up][up]City living requires more mutual dependence, to be sure. Having said that, there's different types of self-reliance. Also, self-reliance being important doesn't necessarily mean that it's always the #1 priority all the time.

Again, I'm arguing that there are good things about the Republican party, not that you should necessarily vote Republican right now. Actually, I would strongly encourage everyone to vote Clinton in this election.

edited 2nd Aug '16 4:57:37 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133943: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:03:12 PM

Traditionally, presidents are White Anglo Saxon Protestants; traditionally, black people don't vote; traditionally, gays don't marry; traditionally, transgenders don't exist; traditionally, women stay at home; traditionally, you sell your daughter for a piece of land; traditionally, porn is evil.

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:13:26 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#133944: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:07:12 PM

What's good about national pride? And while duty is a useful thing to have, tradition has no worth whatsoever on its on. It depends on if it is a good practice. And that has zilch to do with how long it has been around.

Zendervai Since: Oct, 2009
#133945: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:08:16 PM

But the thing about the current GOP is that it isn't conservative. It's a combination of reactionary, where they seek to undo whatever the opposition did, and revolutionary, where they want to tear down the current system and "return" to an idealized version of the 50s that didn't exist in the first place. A genuinely conservative political party would look extremely different from the GOP has pretty much ever looked in its history.

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#133946: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:11:49 PM

A genuinely conservative political party would look extremely different from the GOP has pretty much ever looked in its history.
You sure? The racists, sexists, homophobes, and privileged are always gravitating to conservative parties. Everywhere. They conserve the existing status quo and hence the privileges that come with it.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#133947: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:14:04 PM

[up][nja]I'm not suggesting that all change is bad (in fact, I myself am significantly less of a traditionalist-more on that later), but I do think it's safe to say that some sort of cultural stability is desirable, if only because "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Some progress can, ironically, come from traditionalism as well (the "tradition" of "all men are created equal" has led to progress-think of it as "tradition of progress")

Personally, I consider myself more of a "right-leaning progressive" than a conservative so traditionalism isn't a major aspect of my ideology-most Republican ideals I support for reasons other than strict traditionalism (indeed, I view some of them as being essential to the foreward march of society).

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:14:23 PM by Protagonist506

Leviticus 19:34
flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#133948: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:18:54 PM

Now that I think about it, isn't the Boy Scouts affiliated with the Mormon, and they had a hard time accepting gay members and gay leaders are almost impossible?

Non Indicative Username
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#133950: Aug 2nd 2016 at 5:20:09 PM

As an immigrant to Canada, I always find national pride to be a bit of a odd thing. Why should anyone be proud of a place he or she is in simply because of an accident of birth? Should someone born in Best Korea be proud of the Kim dynasty and their poverty stricken hellhole? Or should a woman born in Saudi Arabia be proud of how she is being oppressed?

[up][up]Only the BSA. I believe the Canadian version is more reasonable.

[down] "a better place" is, of course, fairly subjective...

edited 2nd Aug '16 5:24:46 PM by nightwyrm_zero


Total posts: 417,856
Top