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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#133826: Aug 1st 2016 at 7:22:52 PM

One could hypothesize that the easy availability of porn contributes to maladjusted young men who learn how to deal with women from pornography and suffer confusion (which leads to anger, hate and MRAs) when women prove to be human beings that have other desires than pleasing them.

But I have the feeling that entitled, misogynistic hatred is something that's always existed in history and is just being amplified by the Internet megaphone, so my hypothesis doesn't hold much water.

[up][up][up]Here's how you ice any slope: you put the burden of policing content on content hosts (such as YouTube). If said hosts have no safe harbor and face potentially draconian penalties, then they will enforce content restrictions in the most draconian possible manner without regard to consistency as a matter of self-defense, and prevent content uploaders from effectively defending themselves (because if it's the content provider policing itself, the uploaders don't get their day in court unless the law specifically allows it).

edited 1st Aug '16 7:35:03 PM by Ramidel

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#133827: Aug 1st 2016 at 7:51:26 PM

[up]

Well, that and the GIFT.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#133828: Aug 1st 2016 at 7:52:09 PM

One thing I think we need is a Child ID for the Internet — an online identity that can be established for someone under the age of consent that can be used by websites to filter content appropriately. Right now, children can't legally register for many sites, meaning they either browse the web without a login or under their parents' accounts, which lets them view whatever their parents can. There are risks to this, of course, but less so than the completely toothless "what age are you?" walls that many sites put up.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#133829: Aug 1st 2016 at 7:58:15 PM

Or they lie about their age, which I've seen a lot on Deviant Art. They'd sometimes say things that give it away or make it obvious. I saw someone get busted for being 11, and various people told her "you told me a year ago you were 16" and "you told me you were in college".

I once read a news article about the new gay character added to Archie Comics, and in the comments section, amidst all the adults discussing it from an adult perspective, was an obvious little kid saying something like "WHO DO YOU THINK ARCHIE WILL MARRY, BETTY OR VERONICA? I LOVE LOVE LOVE ARCHIE COMICS I JUST BUYED THREE TODAY". What is she, 6? 7? How'd she discover that news article? Do her parents know she's posting things online that would raise eyebrows at the very least?

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#133830: Aug 1st 2016 at 8:03:02 PM

[up]I've met adults who post like that.

[up][up]What would be ideal for this purpose (as well as several others), but open up a massive can of privacy worms, is giving each person a registered Internet user ID.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#133831: Aug 1st 2016 at 8:04:54 PM

[up] Yes, and I've advocated for that in the past. At the very least, we can do that for children, since it's a long-established precedent that they lack the full rights of adults, both in terms of consent and privacy.

edited 1st Aug '16 8:05:23 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#133832: Aug 1st 2016 at 8:38:41 PM

It would be essentially impossible to setup an ID system unless you got literally all computer manufacturers to agree or some china level government overwatch which brings in worse problems. As much as the internet is a shithole full of shit people the alternatives are worse.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#133833: Aug 1st 2016 at 8:41:34 PM

[up]

On top of that, you've got people already peeved about various analytic programs that track sites visited, purchases made, etc. in order to tailor content to their preference - which on its surface sounds great, but it's also made of Grade-A Paranoia Fuel.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#133834: Aug 1st 2016 at 8:44:10 PM

Internet ID is virtually impossible for Iv P 4 and may be possible for the Iv P 6, but however using a internet ID is insanely complicated for users who have shared networks such as wireless routers, the act of tying someone's SSN to an fixed internet ID falls onto a few problems.

One of those problems is deciding who is responsible for keeping the user database, obviously at application level it is impossible and at ISP level it is quite inconvenient specially since it binds the user to specific IS Ps and forces each ISP to maintain a database containing every registered SSN in the US and you still bump into the issues of having foreigners accessing websites based in the US, another solution is to make the Internet ID be recognized and distributed by a government agency, but that means that each valid IP has to be associated with each individual in the US, all the internet traffic will have to go through the governmental agency. This creates some other issues both legal and technical, which means the government will have access to your browsing data and history and you will make the nigh impossible task of forcing every single packet to move through government servers for validation, which can make the internet traffic slows as hell.

The idea of Think of the Children! and Gotta Catch Em All perverts and cyber criminals through the use of internet I Ds is sweet on the paper but a nightmare to implement on all accounts, and it is also provides diminishing returns since the proposition is to protect children from porn or harmful content and to deal with some cyber crimes such as cyber bullying and revenge porn because you give away a lot of rights and liberties with online content to protect a very tiny portion of the users. Which can also be dealt with parenting in the case of the former and most laws in place already deal with the latter but require other organizations to investigate such as the cybernetic crime divisions of the regular police or the FBI depending of the crime and both have proved to be quite competent in investigating and gathering data without invasive procedures.

Besides most of the laws trying to regulate the internet are created with the intent of undermining the net neutrality, which is why most IT and service providers fight so hard against them since they'd have to take a burden that wasn't theirs to begin with.

edited 1st Aug '16 8:47:52 PM by AngelusNox

Inter arma enim silent leges
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#133835: Aug 1st 2016 at 10:29:24 PM

An Estonian parliament member welcomes America to the information war.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#133836: Aug 1st 2016 at 10:41:10 PM

Serious request: does anyone know a good, well-researched takedown of conservitive talk radio pundids that I could point someone to to make a point about their non-reliability as an information source?

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#133837: Aug 1st 2016 at 11:06:19 PM

One of those problems is deciding who is responsible for keeping the user database, obviously at application level it is impossible and at ISP level it is quite inconvenient specially since it binds the user to specific IS Ps and forces each ISP to maintain a database containing every registered SSN in the US and you still bump into the issues of having foreigners accessing websites based in the US, another solution is to make the Internet ID be recognized and distributed by a government agency, but that means that each valid IP has to be associated with each individual in the US, all the internet traffic will have to go through the governmental agency. This creates some other issues both legal and technical, which means the government will have access to your browsing data and history and you will make the nigh impossible task of forcing every single packet to move through government servers for validation, which can make the internet traffic slows as hell.

Even IS Ps can't do it. You're imagining a much simpler internet than actually exist. Just consider wifi hot spots. How would they recognize your ID from when you're home? It'd have to be on the device. Which means its then vulnerable to spoofing or modification, making the point moot. What about device made prior to an "ID law"? Are they bared from the Internet? What about devices from abroad?

edited 1st Aug '16 11:07:33 PM by Ghilz

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#133838: Aug 1st 2016 at 11:23:53 PM

What in Pele's name has the age of consent to do with the Internet, anyway? That thing is specifically about actual sexual intercourse - child pornography (CP stands for "child pornography") is a wholly different kettle of fish with different standards. And good luck making countries - or even subnational entities - agree to an uniform standard of AOC.

As for a Child ID proposal such as Fighteer's, enforcement and youth rights questions aside most of the problems it's supposed to fix are imaginary or can be fixed more effectively in other ways, too.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#133839: Aug 1st 2016 at 11:24:12 PM

Single Sign On is going to become the standard for internet IDM, at least in business. It already is, but its implemented in a very haphazard way at the moment.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#133840: Aug 1st 2016 at 11:32:06 PM

You're overthinking this. Yes, a general-purpose internet ID would be somewhere between practically and literally impossible. But a basic unified child block wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility. We already have plenty of child block software, it would just need to be standardized a bit and formalized so that it can be enforced from the website side.

Would it stop a dedicated hacker? Of course not. But it's not for them. It's not even for teenagers, really. It's for eight year olds who want to talk about My Little Pony, and you don't want them wandering into Reddit.

Not that I think this is going to happen in our current political climate. Far far too partisan. This whole discussion started because people can't even agree to get rid of child porn without turning it into an extremist slash and burn campaign.

EDIT: Double [nja]'ed. Shinra touches on some of what I was saying.

edited 1st Aug '16 11:32:54 PM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Superdark33 The dark Mage of the playground from Playgrounds and Adventures Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
The dark Mage of the playground
#133841: Aug 2nd 2016 at 1:05:57 AM

Having an enclosed area for children on the internet is a recipe for disaster.

Not only its a "safe space" which piss off the neoreactionaries, the crazier of which will do their best to ruin it, but also who are the proverbial You to decide what content should be there?

If not by trolling then by simply hacking the sites into porn.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#133842: Aug 2nd 2016 at 1:23:52 AM

In fact, a password-protected "child block" option that would systematically transmit a standard "I'm too young for porn" cookie should be easy enough to implement on all mainstream web browsers, and porn site providers will be all too happy to take it in account if you just tell them "it's a better legal CYA than age questions".note 

Then all that would be left to do is neuter all politicians who can't separate reality from fiction.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#133843: Aug 2nd 2016 at 1:27:43 AM

@superdark: There's already online spaces dedicated to kids that's mostly okay, we were more talking about how impossible it would be to child-proof the internet.

@Discar: I'm not even sure a web-side childblock is possible. Discounting the issues with how that would work it would still need to be enforced on sites hosted outside the states and good luck with that.

I think the UK was toying with this a few years back, blocking access to certain sites at the ISP level but I haven't heard much about it and considering VP Ns, proxys and all that other darknet stuff I barely understand I doubt it proved effective.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#133844: Aug 2nd 2016 at 1:42:52 AM

The UK attempt ended up being a complete mess of impracticality.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
thatguythere47 Since: Jul, 2010
#133845: Aug 2nd 2016 at 2:06:46 AM

And that was a pretty bare bones attempt iirc. Just the government handing the ISP a list of sites and wagging their finger.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#133846: Aug 2nd 2016 at 2:21:24 AM

Which looked more like censorship (with an opt-out that requires you contacting the authorities) than an actual parental lock for keeping their kids off it.

The definition of a parental lock is that it must be under the complete control of the parent. Otherwise, Internet-savvy people won't trust it, and rightly so.

edited 2nd Aug '16 2:22:07 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#133847: Aug 2nd 2016 at 2:30:24 AM

And it also had the side effect of blocking access to totally legitimate sites as well.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#133849: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:26:07 AM

Utah really doesn't like him. Before, they chose Cruz over Trump by a large margin IIRC.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#133850: Aug 2nd 2016 at 4:27:46 AM

And yet people are still saying it's impossible for him to lose the state

"Yup. That tasted purple."

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